Consensus on GnomeSequencer-Enchanced (GSE)?

[jak3676]

I was looking to improve my macro setup and someone suggested GSE and wowlazymacros.com. But it seems like a few of their options are against ToS - they add functionality into your macro's that does not exist in game. Specifically, including timing into macros has long been verboten and it looks like GSE alters the default /castsequence behavior also. Thoughts?

I'm thinking back to how Blizz broke their own /castsequence behavior back in BC or WOLK - it used to be possible to optimally program your complete rotation in /castsequence, so Blizz changed that to halt when it encountered something on cool down. But GSE changes that back. Wouldn't that itself be against ToS?

GSE allows you create a sequence of macros to be executed at the push of a button. Like a /castsequence macro, it cycles through a series of commands when the button is pushed. However, unlike castsequence, it uses macro text for the commands instead of spells, and it advances every time the button is pushed instead of stopping when it can't cast something. This means if a spell is on cooldown and you push the button it will continue to the next item in the list with each press until it reaches the end and starts over.

I see lots of folks on wowlazymacros talking about how much delay and timing they're using. But I can't really tell is that's within some more advanced GSE settings or if they're using AHK or something else to automate the macro's their making on GSE.

[MiRai]

I was looking to improve my macro setup and someone suggested GSE and wowlazymacros.com. But it seems like a few of their options are against ToS - they add functionality into your macro's that does not exist in game. Specifically, including timing into macros has long been verboten and it looks like GSE alters the default /castsequence behavior also. Thoughts?

I'm thinking back to how Blizz broke their own /castsequence behavior back in BC or WOLK - it used to be possible to optimally program your complete rotation in /castsequence, so Blizz changed that to halt when it encountered something on cool down. But GSE changes that back. Wouldn't that itself be against ToS?

It isn't against the rules of the game to use an add-on that functions entirely within Blizzard's Lua sandbox for World of Warcraft, and GSE has been around, in some form, since, at least, Legion. If Blizzard didn't approve of it, then they'd break some functionality that it relies on, like they've done to other add-ons in the past.

So, the consensus is going to be that if you can download an add-on from one of the standard add-on sites, and it doesn't require an additional, external program to run (i.e. "unlock" functionality), then it's perfectly fine.

I see lots of folks on wowlazymacros talking about how much delay and timing they're using. But I can't really tell is that's within some more advanced GSE settings or if they're using AHK or something else to automate the macro's their making on GSE.

Yes, they tend to be referring to that, and using an external program to press a key for you at a set interval is against the rules of the game, regardless of whether you press the key once to initiate it, or if you're holding it down to repeat it (e.g. auto-fire), but an external program is in no way required in order to make GSE work properly.

[Tin]

I don´t use Autohotkey or keyboard software to keep the same MS.

The way I understand the use off Autohotkey Script - it`s like your mouse software that you can control how fast/slow you curser moves - it is not a auto script - it does nothing with out you are pressing a key. (Basically MS is the speed at which people are “pressing” the button that the macro is bound to)

https://wowlazymacros.com/t/bots-bot...grey-line/4398

[Wizeowel]

I'm thinking back to how Blizz broke their own /castsequence behavior back in BC or WOLK - it used to be possible to optimally program your complete rotation in /castsequence, so Blizz changed that to halt when it encountered something on cool down. But GSE changes that back. Wouldn't that itself be against ToS?

As I understand it, all GSE does is split the script into multiple macros and when you press your button, it calls all the macros quasi-simultaneously. There is no timing involved. The reason it can "it advances every time the button is pushed instead of stopping when it can't cast something" is just because they are separate macros. This is not against ToS, just like you could make 5 macros in game and mash all 5 keys at once. The trick is that GSE puts them in the input queue at the same time, but in order so WoW will always try to execute the first macro first.

This is also possible in ISBoxer if you call multiple named macros in a single step of your mapped key.

[jak3676]

Thanks all - appreciate your input. I was afraid there was some sort of timing/auto-fire option buried within GSE somewhere (and I didn't want to install it to find out the hard way myself). But that does not seem to be the case. I'm very happy with the answer that GSE works only within the WoW APIs. Seems like GSE itself is fine.

But there also seem to be a lot of GSE users who combine it with external tools to either introduce timing or just to repeadly spam a GSE macro.

(Basically MS is the speed at which people are “pressing” the button that the macro is bound to)

https://wowlazymacros.com/t/bots-bot...grey-line/4398

Yeah, MS in is the millisecond delay that they've programmed - i.e. 200MS (poor notation BTW - millisecond is most commonly abbreviated as "ms") is just another way of writing 0.2 seconds. Having any sort of tool that repeatedly spams a command (whether it does that by you pressing and holding a button, or by using a toggle on/off fundamentally breaks Blizzard's 1 keypress = 1 action mantra.

I think it's funny that even within the wowlazymacro post telling people that may be over the line, there's other users talking about what timing they're running at, what is optimal, and justifying why they think it should be OK.

I don't want to turn this into a discussion about AutoHotKey (AHK), programable mice/keyboards or similar products - those have been well discussed on these forums and elsewhere at length and we're likely not going to change anyone's opinion on them either way. I'd just summarize it by saying there's a few blue posts telling people not to do it, and there's also decades of people at this point saying they've been doing it without problem. Your own mileage may vary and everyone has their own level of risk acceptance. I'm just glad none of that is directly tied to GSE.

[Ellay]

This site in general is quite anti cheat/anti bot, as bad as a reputation that multiboxing get Mirai/Super and the rest of the folks do an amazing job curating it to remove those types of content.

[MadMilitia]

Thanks all - appreciate your input. I was afraid there was some sort of timing/auto-fire option buried within GSE somewhere (and I didn't want to install it to find out the hard way myself). But that does not seem to be the case. I'm very happy with the answer that GSE works only within the WoW APIs. Seems like GSE itself is fine.

But there also seem to be a lot of GSE users who combine it with external tools to either introduce timing or just to repeadly spam a GSE macro.



Yeah, MS in is the millisecond delay that they've programmed - i.e. 200MS (poor notation BTW - millisecond is most commonly abbreviated as "ms") is just another way of writing 0.2 seconds. Having any sort of tool that repeatedly spams a command (whether it does that by you pressing and holding a button, or by using a toggle on/off fundamentally breaks Blizzard's 1 keypress = 1 action mantra.

I think it's funny that even within the wowlazymacro post telling people that may be over the line, there's other users talking about what timing they're running at, what is optimal, and justifying why they think it should be OK.

I don't want to turn this into a discussion about AutoHotKey (AHK), programable mice/keyboards or similar products - those have been well discussed on these forums and elsewhere at length and we're likely not going to change anyone's opinion on them either way. I'd just summarize it by saying there's a few blue posts telling people not to do it, and there's also decades of people at this point saying they've been doing it without problem. Your own mileage may vary and everyone has their own level of risk acceptance. I'm just glad none of that is directly tied to GSE.

It's not relevant. The speed at which you fire a key doesn't matter. What matters is you're initiating it not some 3rd party program. I'll give you an example of what the thin grey line actually looks like.

A person (I don't remember the name now) caught a ban for hyperspawn farming once where they tethered their characters to a point using an exploit I assume and keyboard software to toggle their autofire. The end result was they were crudely going about his farming tasks while he was AFK.

Another example is years ago a few raiders caught bans for using an auto rotation program. Meaning they were otherwise in full control of their movement but something else was doing their DPS rotation. This I think was back during MoP when DPS rotations were way more complex. If your character is fully or even partially automated in their actions then you're breaking ToS.

It's nuanced but clear to me. I've been multiboxing WoW since Wrath and I've used gnome sequencer for as many years. I also have razer peripherals and I use some of the autofire tech because I don't want carpal tunnel. Plus I find it much easier to manage fewer buttons when 5 boxing. So I consolidate most DPS down to single keys (macros on the WoW client itself) and fire those off. I've never been banned for this and the reason is clear. I'm in full control of them all the time. Both their movement and their DPS rotations. I choose when to DPS, when not to DPS, when to move, when not to move, when to use CC or interrupts or whatever. It's all mapped to my keyboard and it's my fingers commanding it.

Anyway the logic behind gnome sequencer and why it doesn't break ToS is that it's just bundling a bunch of castsequence macros. Cast sequence is 1>2>3 with no logic to determine when 1, 2 or 3 would be ideal. It just does them always in the same order. No different than if you were to press 1>2>3>4 on your keyboard. You're just pushing everything onto a single key to make your life easier. Many good lazymacros use a combo of /castsequence with modifiers such that one button is really many with the convenience of being fewer keys on the keyboard. The obvious downside to all of this is it's crude. It's a lot different than what got the raiders banned during MoP. The bot they were using was choosing when to use certain spells during certain events. Reading procs and such to execute things perfectly. That was the problem. It was thinking for them. GSE will NEVER be this good. Regardless of how creative you get with writing macros.

[Lewsifur]

You will get better results using the mapped keys, using the advanced setup. Far better control, can add macros to keys , and then fire it off with isboxer. This inckudes macros with cast sequence by simpling adding in another step with the same key for the macro. I find gse useful for quick setups to lesrn a class.