[EQ1] 6 Box question: Shaman/Bard, or Cleric/Enchanter, or....?

[sfdd]

Hi all,

I am currently running a 6-box group consisting of SK, Cleric, Enchanter, Druid, Mage, Wiz (all level 30). I have read quite a few threads about the Shamans vs. Cleric for healing and Enchanter vs. Bard for, well, the stuff that they do...

Putting this into a boxing context and knowing that I will not be raiding with this group (just pushing the group game to the end), would I be further ahead replacing the Cleric with a Shaman since I have the druid as a backup healer? And if I do that, I no longer need the Enchanter to slow, etc., so would I at that point be better off replacing the Enchanter with a bard? For what it's worth, I use ISBoxer for boxing.

Thanks, SFDD.

[Alge]

My highest team (SHD, CLE, BRD, ENC, WIZ, ROG) is only 72, so I'm not sure how this advice applies to higher levels. I also have another team at 50 (SHD, SHM, DRU, MAG, ENC, NEC), which I created to specifically test how I would fare without a cleric or bard, so I can at least make some observations.

A bard is an awesome addition to any team, for both run speed (although that becomes less important after you have Run Speed 5) and reliable group invis/lev. The latter (via Selo's Song of Travel at 51 especially) is incredibly useful. Your druid will get a group invis (Foliage Shield) at 52 and has single target levitation but there is not group version of improved invis that I am aware of and only necros get group levitation (that I am aware of). A bard can also do crowd control, but they need to concentrate on crowd control when they do so, meaning that you won't get all the benefits of /melody at that point. They do have awesome crowd control tools though.

Mana regen from bards and enchanters is comparable (when the bard is able to play that song). If you play in outdoor zones, having a mount makes a huge difference. Of course, once again you will run into the issue of what the bard should be playing using /melody. If you are doing heavy crowd control with the bard, you may not get all the mana regen benefits they bring. You also have the Pot9 line for mana regen on your druid, so you may find you have enough even with a bard who can't play the chorus/cantata line all the time.

One issue you will have in going without a cleric is the lack of resurrection until level 59 when both the druid and shaman get a 90% rez. The cleric gets steadily higher percentage rezzes, topping out at 96% at level 56. Clerics are amazing healers, and for most group content so far I can just use a Heal over Time, particularly once the mob is slowed. The issue I foresee with the druid/shaman combo is that they may both need to heal until the mob is slowed and that if you take out the enchanter, then the shaman is your slower. You could try the bard as a pre-slower (from level 48), at least until you have a pull under control and get a chance to overwrite with the shaman slow.

Overall, I'd say you'd have a slightly easier time with the group you have now, but the group you are proposing should be able to do the same content. I'd be interested to know what you eventually decide to do and how it works out.

[Ualaa]

I've read a lot of the Everquest I stuff.
But haven't actually played the game since the Planes of Power expansion.

It seems recommended to have:
- a Tank (which can be a Mercenary, Tank Class, or a Pet (if no one else is in melee))
- a Healer (Priest class or Mercenary); many like to have both a Mercenary and their own Healer
- a Porting class (you have both of those Druid/Wizard already)
- Many consider a bard to be essential for a boxing team
- A Mage can make things much easier, via Call of the Hero (run the Mage anywhere, and CotH your team there).

Bard vs Enchanter
A 'Bard' is far easier to box than an 'Enchanter', and is a lot closer to optimal efficiency when boxed than the chanter would be.
Both are excellent pulling classes, but the bard is probably the strongest puller in the game.
Enchanters can be better (with Twin Aura) for groups heavy on Caster Classes.
You can use the /melody command to cycle through songs... /melody 1 2 3 4 1 5 1 2 3 4 6


Shaman vs Cleric
All three Priest classes are very capable healers.
The Cleric is going to have more healing spells, so you're more likely to have the best heal for the situation.
Cleric will bring Fortitude and Symbol buffs (which won't stack with a Druid's Skin line).

The Shaman has Slows, which can greatly reduce the incoming damage (better slow than a Chanter or Bard).
From what I've read, outside of Raid Content having a Slow class is no longer absolutely necessary.
The Shaman HP buff line stacks with both the Cleric or Druid buffs.




There's an EQ Mac Forum, with a ton of boxers.
They had a thread, where they were brainstorming an optimal group.

They liked:
- Enchanter A (Charm a Pet)
- Enchanter B (Charm a Pet)
- Druid (WotW, Snare the Charmed)
- Mage (Malo, Tank Pet when you cannot Charm something)
- Bard (Group songs, including Mez song at one of the charmed pets so there's no issue if it breaks)
- Any other ranged class.

Another guy, with an older system advocated:
- Enchanter (Charm)
- Druid
- Mage
- Necro
- Bard (Mez song at the only Pet)
- Cleric (Heals)

[shadowlord63]

My team is level 88 and consist of a SK, SHM, WIZ, MAGE, BARD, Merc heals. I blow thru all the content my level no problem.

I chose the SHM over an ENCH because SHM has better slow and alot of buffs. The SHM is also my backup healer for when my merc gets a brainfart and forgets to heal or merc runs outta mana.

I chose a BARD over the ENCH because i can get a mana buff in guild lobby easy enough so ENCH not even needed. BARD has mezzes, slows, roots, speed, mana/hp buffs, ect...... My group never runs outta mana and kills nonstop. Very efficient group because of the BARD.

As far as a CLERIC goes, i have never had a need for one. The merc healer has rank 2 buffs and a J5 healer has no problems at all keeping your group up. Also i have a SHM just in case extra heals are needed.

The WIZ is the character i will never do without. Instant exodus AA for when the crap hits the fan, huge lifesaver. Ports, Non breakable root AA, and my best damage class in the group. My MAGE can hit an NPC for about 10% health damage on average, but my WIZ does an astounding 15-20% health damage to the same NPC per spell hit. These are normal hits on an NPC of same level. My WIZ crits for about 40% health damage on mobs of same level, while my MAGE crits for about 20% regularly.

OR when i'm bored i just put together my secondary Ranged DPS group MAGE, MAGE, RANG, WIZ, BARD, merc heal, and roll thru a zone 5 levels lower than my group and collect hella AAs or exp. Its awesome watching mobs drop before they can get to you, lol. The pets keep all the mobs busy if you pull to many, so its a sweet setup.

[tatanka7th]

Just one clarification, from what I remember, cleric Symbol line does stack with Druid skin line.

Tat

[sfdd]

Thanks for the responses all - you gave me a lot to think about!! I very much appreciate all the feedback as it has allowed me to come to a solid conclusion (at least for me) about which group lineup I will go forward with.

At this point, I think that I am going to stay with my current lineup, including the cleric and the enchanter. My reasoning for this is that while the shaman and bard have a lot to offer, I’m not seeing a distinct advantage of replacing either my cleric or enchanter with something else. In addition, I have played an enchanter (at least as a box char) on and off over the years, so I am more familiar with how to play one. Bards, on the other hand, would be largely a new thing to me. So, yes, even my own laziness played a part in this decision .

Alge – you bring up some good points about the usefulness of Selo’s for getting around, but between the druid and the wiz giving me access to all of the port points, Flight of Eagles (Druid lvl62 65% movement increase + lev), perma-invis thru AA’s on the wiz or mage, and perma-undead invis AA’s on cleric (and SK?), I think I am covered pretty well for getting around (yes, I’ll need to deal with some non-perma invis’s, etc. at lower levels, but it seems doable).

Tatanka7th – you are indeed correct – the symbol line stacks with the druid skin line, so between that, Enchanter mana regen buffs, mounts, OOC regen, etc., I think I will be OK for mana. The Shaman slows are nice, but as Alge alluded to, I don’t relish the thought of trying to get a heal out in a pinch while trying to slow as well (although I know that I can combine some of those actions on the shaman). I like the idea of just working the slows and mezzes from the enchanter and healing with the cleric. I have also read, as Ualaa pointed out, that slows, outside of raid situations, are no longer as important/necessary as they once were.

Since I am a fairly caster heavy group, I am also thinking that the enchanter adps auras/buffs later on will be handy. It sounds like Bards bring some goodness to caster groups as well, but it sounds like it is on par with what an enchanter brings. Perhaps if my group was more melee and/or pet heavy, I would benefit more from the shaman, but as it is…

Shadowlord63 – you make a good point about utilizing a cleric merc and running a team of 5, but I am hesitant to do that in that I think there are still some instances, etc. in EQ that don’t allow the use of mercs (some Anguish stuff, etc.). Perhaps this has changed in the last expansions, but I would not want to have to skip content because I am using a merc. I also like the predictability of using my own boxed characters – that way I never have to wonder why the hell my merc did this or that thing – I always only have myself to blame.

I plan on pulling primarily with the SK. My old main used to be a monk that I played for years and years, so I am used to FD pulling, etc. Bards do appear to have some fantastic pulling tools, but as many folks have pointed out, it seems that pulling singles has become easier over the expansions. If all else fails, I have the druid or enchanter to help with splits and/or enchanter to mez if I can’t avoid multiples.

I could go on, but I think this pretty much sums up my conclusion. Thanks again for everyone that took time to weigh in – your advice/input is greatly appreciated and helped me immensely in coming to my decision! Now to finish setting up ISBoxer (which, ironically, is almost as fun for me as is playing EQ ).

Thanks,
SFDD

[Lyonheart]

I used merc healers and tanks..i play a Ranger..druid..but i want to replace the druid with wiz and Shaman. Shaman make a better choice if you use a cleric merc.. so you have great back up heals ( a lot of HoTs ) and buffs and debuffs. I was three boxing last time i played and my 3rd merc was DPS or healer if i was on hard content. ( if your in a guild you can gate to GH and use portals to get anywhere..so less need of porter class.. but port classes are still awesome )