Multiboxing Incursions without SOLOing them

[LordsServant]

So we all know of the guys who run incursions solo - they've got 15 or so accts, make tons of isk......and have to cough up 9b+ every single month for the privilege to do so.

I'm assuming most of the multiboxers here who play eve don't have that many accounts, nor want to grind to pay for that many plex to make the isk...but enjoy our multiboxing.

Most of the Incursion communities that I know of are all butthurt over multiboxers for stomping them(<3 ya jay m8 ;) ), and freak out(sometimes hilariously) when you suggest running even 2 characters in "their" fleets.

Are there enough folks like me who enjoy pvp and/or not having to grind 23/7 to plex 15 accounts who'd be interested in grouping up for incursions, but multiboxing at the same time?

Lemme know if there's enough interest to bother trying to set anything up. (or maybe anyone's who interested in both boxing and incursions has given up all hope and just got enough chars to solo em or doesnt want to run incursions)

[Headshotbitch]

Well i have one main Dps pilot and two RR domi pilots that i plan on training into guardians so once there training is done im sure i could help

In Game Name James Tzashi

[CMKCot]

you forgot to mention what you can fly, op.

i have 7 characters that can fly pretty much anything subcapital. i've been testing incursions on sisi for this last few days using 5 absolutions + 2 guardians. and they can destroy VGs many times faster than any mach fleet can, not to mention that even with full bling absolutions are dirt cheap (250m for a basic t2 fit, 400m for a blinged up one). 850+ dps with low signature guns and perfect tracking feels really fast, even with only 5 dps ships. sadly CCP just now did another mirror (two in the same month!) so i have to move again to an incursion system. (and doing that in SiSi can take hours thanks to all gates being closed...)

compared to my wildlands signature grind incursions are 100 times more boring, but much more reliable on drops. that, and less angry Russians chasing me around :p


anyway, if anyone is bored enough, i will be moving to the Aptetter incursion to keep practicing, since on TQ i always fly incursions as logistics.

if you have atleast logistics Iv and multitasking IV you can already do logistics for a vg fleet James Tzashi, that way i can fly all 7 characters as absolutions, and things can go even faster, even on the damn OTAs. too bad you are under a bunch of wardecs right now :p

[Crayonbox]

damn incursions is definitely somethign i want to do eventually bceause its better than spamming lvl 4s im sure. but im lacking the skills atm :(
im running a pretty inefficient setup atm. 5x super tanked drakes
over 800passive ehp/s with t2 RRs set up for boost tanking if needed which brings it up to almost 1500 ehp/s
btu damage is horrid at barely over 230 per drake. its still faster and safer than playingh a single BS, but for 5 chars its pretty silly.

[EaTCarbS]

yep. drakes are good at tanking damage - and nothing else

[Crayonbox]

i wholly regret going missiles haha. i shoulda just went artillery haha. get 5 nados or canes or something haha

[Alzuule]

Ive been dual boxing for a while now, doing anomalies and 10/10s mostly but with a few attempts at some pvp ( did pretty well one time multiboxing talwars in FW space ) but im looking into expanding the amount of clients to box. Been looking into trying out incursions but seeing as i dont have enough characters to solo them and that i havent done incursions since they initialy came out ive been holding off, so if anyone is still interested in trying this then my ingame name is Alzuule and im eagerly waiting for a response :D

[CMKCot]

i moved my incursion fleet to the Tq server, i have 3 seats open if anyone wants to take them. i would prefer oneiros logistics, 70+ sensor strength guardians or any drone ship that can fit mild RR, like prophecies, myrmidons, ishtars/Pilgrims, even armor rapiers (yes, there's such thing) or just good ol' dominixes.

if that's not available, any medium beam/rail/arty ship that can hit up to 70km. (to kill the maras) those can be Zealots, Muninns, Absolutions, maybe Harbis, nHarbis, or even nOmens if perfectly trained and mildly pimped.

the reason i would prefer rr ships or additional logis is simply because i have 2 characters doing logitics, if i get dced we all die horribly. :D and currently my drone dps is usually wasted due to the extra hassle of picking targets for them, so a drone bunny would come in handy.

as far as my DPS goes, im currently using 5x absolutions shooting scorch, two shooting any frig every 4 seconds. i can easily contest any fleet, and i have already won over full 10 man fleets filled with pimp ships, from DIN and ISN. absolutions put pimped pirate battleships to shame.

not to mention their resist profile is 89/85/81/90... :cool:

[Absolution, basic VG pulse]
Shadow Serpentis Armor EM Hardener
Armor Thermic Hardener II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Drone Link Augmentor II
[empty high slot]

Medium Energy Locus Coordinator II
Medium Energy Locus Coordinator II


the ship costs 250m isk and /lols at 3 bill battleships. but it does take a good 250 days to fly properly, so im obviously not expecting anyone else to be flying it in fleet. :p


as far as skills go, joining the incursion fleet with a t1 battlecruiser is more than enough.

something like this:

[Prophecy, zz]
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Drone Navigation Computer II
Drone Navigation Computer II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Medium 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Medium 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Medium 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I


is more than enough, and everything can be changed for meta/tech I/cheap faction.

for a Domi, i would go for something like this:

[Dominix, Vgdomi]
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Drone Navigation Computer II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I



my in game contact is Khelian Luotte, currently on the Ajah incursion. every time i complete a VG im wasting 30m isk due to the free slots, so please... come get your isk.

Alzuule, you are in the amarr militia, if someone reps you in highsec, he goes suspect. :p you might want to use an alt or drop from FW.

[Alzuule]

I am fully aware of how being in amarr FW doesnt do well with criminal mechanics and incursions :D im not planning on staying in amarr FW so i would drop into NPC corp before joining incursions.

I'd love to come join you whenever i can, at the moment i can bring 2 oneiros/domi/prophecy or another absolution ( only 1 character can fly that though )

Edit: I'd also be interested in more info about how you manage to effectively run 2 guardians at the same time as 5 absolutions since thats the part that has been bugging me the most. So far ive only triple boxed ships outside talwars, this way ive been able to see if one of my alts were targeting something else then the rest, do you have a trick/magic window setup for this or is the answer simply getting another monitor?

[Mosg2]

I have a question or two about running the Domi, if you don't mind me mini-hijacking your thread :)

Right now I'm kind of torn between running 10 Domis tanked out with 2 RR modules apiece and Sentry drones OR running 10 tanked out Gilas.

Obviously we're comparing Cruisers to Battleships, but to me that's why it kind of hinges on. Is the better maneuverability+ability to warp out of bad situations worth the tank+RR loss from the Domis? Will I be able to run Vanguards with 10 Gilas (I know 10 Domis can do it)?

[Alzuule]

if you take the gila over the domi you wont just lose out on the tank and RR, you will also miss the amazing sentry range and tracking bonus. all in all i wouldnt try it with gilas without replacing 2 of them with logi since you will need the reps. Mind you that all i know about incursions is from video guides and friends that run them but i believe i am educated enough in the subject to help you with this :)

Edit: Also i dont think Garde IIs will track all of the vanguard rats particularily well seeing as they ( as far as i know ) orbit rather close and move into optimal very fast. Unlike in anomalies where you can warp in at 100km and shoot all the frigates np you will land at a certain distance in vanguards.

[Mokoi]

If you run Domis, you could also run an autocannon or some missiles to deal with frigates, right? And if you needed to you could swap sentry drones for scout drones after taking out the large targets from 150k or so.

[Alzuule]

most of the rats will be frigates though i believe, but then again i havent tried it or know anyone who did so couldnt tell for sure. if you can track them though then you'd probably be volleying them.

[CMKCot]

a regular RR fleet kinda works on incursions, but a multiboxed RR fleet definitely won't.

the thing is, to make a spider fleet work you will need to pre lock all ships that will be repaired. the set up i've used many times when doing lowsec exploration in lowsec is to split the fleet in half.

A targets E F G H I
Btargets E F G H I
C targets E F G H I
D targets E F G H I
E targets A B C D I
F targets A B C D I
G targets A B C D I
H targets A B C D I

everyone assigns drones to I

this set up allows you to easily assign 4 reps to anyone on the fleet.

the problem is you are extremely vulnerable to ECM.

the second wave on the OTA sites will pretty much demolish you, it can be 3x Niarjas, 2x Augas, one Neuting battleship up to 6 Tamas AND 5 standard frigates. (this is the reason incursioneers hate the OTA sites)

between the neuting, jams and the obscene dps from the Augas you are in for a WTF moment. you can get lucky and get one niarja, and less tamas... but every time you push that wave you'll be sweating bullets wondering what will the RNG send your way.

one way around this is to do a turtle set up. all domis use deadspace medium reps + deadspace cap xfers. feeding into a guardian with 6x reps. this way the targeting is WAY easier. the domis only need one target, and its the same on all.


as far as sentries go, the answer is no. on assault sites they kinda work, but on VGs rats get close in less than 10 - 15 seconds. not enough time to lock and blap. you need 400+ signature resolution to pull it off. and between waiting for all ships to land, setting up orbits, dropping drones, locking up and any eventuality and the rats will be swarming you.

and even when the domi has a beast tracking boost, sentries are still considered battleship size weapons (400 signature) even if you stack 3x faction omnilinks, the .08 tracking paired with the gun resolution will make most hits be glances. with the same .08 tracking medium guns will give you almost double the damage application. (beam lasers for example)

and yes, you can use webs. but its way too much trouble.

i would recommend prophecies, you can fit 2x nav computers + 2x omnilinks and use valkiries. (med drones.) they will deal a good 250 dps. and will hit the frigates with ease. prophecies can fit med reps, but cant really perma run them. so small reppers will be necessary. (yet, prophecies can use warfare links... so with enough SP they can be way better than domis)

if you don't want to depend on webs to kill stuff you need to aim for at least 0.15 tracking. the absolutions im using use 3x Tcs, that gives the pulses 0.2 tracking, enough to hit the low orbit frigates as if they were standing still, some frigates are real assholes orbiting at 2000m at 1.5km/s...

as far as rat composition go, they start either at 30km, or 70km. VGs are mostly frigates and cruisers. frigates either dive in for low orbits under 5km, or they stay at 10 - 15 km. the low orbit ones have low tank, but are REALLY fast, the ones that stay at a distance can be surprisingly tanky (more so if Maras are present, sansha logistics).

the cruisers follow a similar pattern, some will stay at 20 - 25 km with really strong tanks, or will dive in to 8km orbits and deal brutal damage. the later one are the "Augas", they have battleship tanks and move around like frigates... scary buggers.

as far as damage goes, regardless of the ship the rule of thumb is, if it stays at range it will do voley damage. one Tama is laughable, but 6 can be scary. in the other hand, if it dives in to low orbit it will do constant burst damage. Augas can deal 300-400 damage every 2 - 3 seconds (they usually come in pairs), and that's after my 90% resists... battleships and some of the named frigates can deal 1k damage volleys, but they hit you every 15 - 25 seconds, so its not bad.


and as far as gilas go, they will work fine, untill you do the OTA sites. battlecruisers are good not just because of their tank, also because of their 4k+ cap reserve. gilas have less than half that. the Neuting battleship can fuly neut a gila that not only uses cap for the resists but also for RR.

OTAs consist of 5 frigates that cant be killed (so you must allways tank them) + one neuting battleship, and assorted dps. AND a logistic Tower that makes the battleship feel like a carrier. if you kill the battleship first you push the wave and you get another 10+ sansha to deal with AND another battleship . so you must keep him alive until all other ships are cleared. by that moment the battleship will have neuted a good 2k cap off 3 of your ships...

anything bigger than a battlecruiser will simply laugh it off, but cruisers will have a hard time unless you also fit some cap boosters.

[Mokoi]

OK, so I have a few questions.

1. Where is the best place to try and make ISK in nullsec? Can I make enough money to pay for 10 accounts with ratting in anomalies? What kinds of ships will I need for that?

2. Do sentry drones suck totally until I have T2 ones? Can I use T1 while I'm training to T2?

3. I am considering a Dominix Battleship setup with close to minimal skills until I can train them, with the long-term hope of using them or other large sentry drone boats for making money. Is this an effective setup, or is there another ship I should be looking for, and if so, what is it? Do sentry drones work in later game PvE content? Should I be looking for another route to look at to make money? I want to make at least 4-6 billion a month, hopefully before a year of training is required :P

4. How can I use multiboxing to my advantage in PvP? the only PvP I have seen has been 50v50 or more, and I don't know where to look for smaller engagements where I can look to gank for profit and fun. I know that running more than one character can be a liability in large-scale PvP, or maybe we have found a better way than other boxers who don't use ISboxer very well.

5. What are some of your in-game names so we can talk to you and ask questions? I have asked in the in game channels, but nobody is every there and paying attention.

6. Does anyone run around with stealth ships gakning low or nullsec? is this viable with multiboxing?

[Alzuule]

1a. for multiboxing in nullsec i'd go to a nullsec alliance that owns or rents space with some good ratting systems, these are usually based in the outer regions of nullsec and the best are -0.7 to -1.0 sec status, only one or two gates and a station. You can make enough money ratting in anomalies to pay for 10 accounts but it does take time. I tried running dual domis with t2 sentries in angel space, was super easy and decent isk, most of the isk were from complexes i did though. I got 15m/tick per domi and every now and then i would get an escalation that could lead to anything between 100m and 1.5b for 1½ hours work ( moving around included ).

2a. Sentry drones dont suck "totally" before you get t2 ones, but t2 ones are way better. for low sp characters with t1 sentries and drone interfacing 4 i'd expect 350-400 dps in a sentry domi ( no guns ). T2 sentries also have better range and tracking.

3a. i know that Domis are used in C5-C6 wormholes ( only for hacking/archeology sites though ) and L5 mission running, sentry setups tend to be lower on the dps then other weapon systems so for incursions they will most likely be low on priority.

4a. multiboxing is very nice in pvp, but if you want to use more then one account for an active combat role in pvp then it starts getting tricky. Personally i have dual/triple boxed for years, running a main ship for combat and another account in a covert ops and/or hauler/booster/recon. Recently ive been starting to look into having more then one account running a combat ship, and what i and many others before me have found is that the only sane way to this is to go with the most simple setups that look the most alike. Something were you have to micromanage the least modules and can safely press approach/orbit/stop and not worry too much about navigation. you also want to stay cheap of course since you wont just be losing 1 ship in case you lose, so setups like talwars would be a good start where you could go on to cruiser sized ships with 2 logi cruisers once you get the hang of managing 10 talwars for pvp.

5a. Alzuule is my ingame name and i'd be good with answering questions or maybe even trying out some crazy multiboxing pvp gang one day :p

6a. stealth in lowsec is usually a nono since gate and station sentries will destroy the usually papertanked stealthbombers and their rather thin recon brothers. However gangs of tornados/nagas/oracles or even arty ruptures could wreck some serious havoc without being too hard to deal with. another pointer to look for when multiboxing this many is volley, if your ship would be able what its supposed to engage with the numbers you bring then it will do even better then if it were 10 individuals flying them since the volleys would be controlled by 1 person rather then 10.

Hope this helps :D if you are looking for more specific fits then contact me ingame and i'd love to chat and tinker with you about this since its something ive been looking at for a while now myself.

[Mokoi]

6. ste4alth in low sec is no no? why? do you get tagged for a while after killing someone in low sec that will make you attackable by the gate turrets? I wont be gate camping with them, just thinking about running around in them ganking in belts, anomalies, etc.

[Alzuule]

Its that the gate sentries will destroy stealth ships too easily, unless you only use heavy tanked arazus or T3 cruisers. however in nullsec a stealth gang could be awesome. could set it up with 1 arazu 1 rapier and rest in stealth bombers for dps and bombs. however if you really want to go hunting in lowsec with a stealth crew i guess you could go only after pirates who has a sec status below -5, so that the sentries on gates and stations wont attack you. Thing is that in lowsec almost all fights happen on gates or stations outside FW, and in FW area most people will be in frigates.

[Mokoi]

i was thinking about ganking miners in big ships (where I can find them) in low sec.

[Alzuule]

If you want to gank miners then lowsec is not the place to go, since no one really mines there ( and those who do only do it a short while and only once ). stealth (read cloaky) ships is probaby a bad idea for lowsec, but not bad for nullsec. In nullsec you can find pockets where theres miners in the anomaly belts, where there can be anything from a single mining barge to twenty or so exhumers mining. The trick though is to catch them before they can warp to safety which is usually not easy.

you can always try highsec ganking first :D fit your characters up in destroyers and gank some haulers/miners with one alt ready to scoop loot, you might even be able to make money doing this with that many characters.

[CMKCot]

plex warfare is very effective, on neutdragoons/talwars, it can be a somewhat annoying since fighting frigs usually means any dead ship will get insta podded. but if you plan accordingly you can have lots of fun for almost no expense. a respectable talwar fleet can go for around 20m, a perfect one for around 60m. and the difference between them is minimal.

if you want to pvp, stick to tanked dessies, frigs will die to easily. cruisers are only good when you have other pilots doing logistics for you. a fleet of mallers or Naugorors can decimate bigger fleets, and they don't require much micro.

and for lowsec ganking, with rubicon you can do it on Assault frigates, specially minnie ones, with warp rigs they are crazy fast. first get a suicide point bomber to hold your target then move in the frigs or just log them in for the kill. point bombers don't fit guns, only tank and point/web. (bombers have no targetting delay after decloaking).

with the new ghost sites, you will have targets. specially on the first months when the gold rush happens.

[Alzuule]

[Talwar, Cheap Talwar Gang]
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Alumel-Wired Sensor Augmentation, Targeting Range Script
[empty med slot]

Upgraded 'Malkuth' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
Upgraded 'Malkuth' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
Upgraded 'Malkuth' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
Upgraded 'Malkuth' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
Upgraded 'Malkuth' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
Upgraded 'Malkuth' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile
Upgraded 'Malkuth' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Nova Light Missile

Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
[empty rig slot]



is what ive personally used for talwar gangs, both for multiboxing and normal gangs ive FCed in factional warfare space, very effective once you get 6 or more of them since you can volley most t1 frigates, interceptors, EW frigs and the less tanky destroyers. They only take about 10 days for a completely new alt with no training to get into and fly with 1k volley and 50km range. Since i cant find the regroup command ( i swear there used to be one? ) i broadcast orbit 500m on the slowest alt and try and keep atleast 30km range on the enemies warp in. each talwar only costs 8-10m.

[EaTCarbS]

regroup command is still there

[Alzuule]

ah okay, guess ive just forgotten where it is.

[CMKCot]

its right next to the leave fleet command, which 10 years after the game has been released still has no confirmation dialog, so if you miss click it you drop fleet...
its on the drop down menu at the top left corner of the fleet window.

[Brandish]

I have run incursions solo, with a vulture tank, 4 scimitars, and 5 or 6 sleipnirs. Great money -- 3 to 5 billion on a long day, and pretty intense because I wasn't using any tools to box with (ISBoxer, keyclone, etc.) [and to the OP, paying that 9 billion each month doesn't seem that onerous when you're able to pay that off in 3 good sessions -- or 8 "crappy" ones ;-) ]

Unfortunately, I moved and my internet cuts out "occasionally" now. One net hiccup would mean 3 ships lost, on average, for a loss of 1 to 3 billion, depending on what dies.

So, atm that has caused me to spend my game time else-game or in the belts mining. (Yes, some hate mining, but it is still self supporting -- just not the extreme cash gush that incursions is ;-) )

I'd love to suckle on the cash-flow teat of incursions again, and what that seems to mean is finding someone(s) who can fly 3x logistics to keep me and themselves alive when my net takes a short-break, until I can get back on. Or maybe some other mix of ships would work as well... in case I couldn't get back you could at least kill things off until you could escape.

I have my brother training logistics, but he is (so far, muahaha) only one account (and not fully trained.)

Because of my net I've been away from incursions for a while now, if I started doing them again I'd probably want to start with a few short sessions to get warmed up. (and I was doing particular sites that the sleipnirs did well in... not sure how they fair now, having lost effectively 1 turret of power since I last flew them)

I've got eve in "keep the skills training at least" mode right now. I'd have to both see your message and rearrange my schedule for this to work.

Edit: My apologies for posting on topic. I'll try harder next time. ;-)

[Alzuule]

the topic did get a little off i guess :P

the CS rebalance ended up being very nice for most of the ships, im pretty sure the sleipnir didnt lose any dps since it would have gotten a bigger ship bonus to compensate as the other commandships did. I'd be able to bring 3 scimitars for incursions but at the moment im moving to a new house where the internet isnt set up yet so i wont be on a whole lot.


I'd say this is closely enough related to OPs topic to put it under here: whats peoples experience with alternatives like L5 missions? i had a chat with OP one day but would be nice to get someone with experience in multiboxing them to point out the pros/cons to those instead of incursions. What ive been able to gather is that you can do it with alot less characters and skillpoints without the competition and moving around. Of course theres the thing with it being based in lowsec but other then that, why wouldnt you do L5s rather then incursions?

[Mosg2]

Well, Vanguards+ are where the ISK is it in incursions, and you really need 8-11 pilots to do them. So, for people who aren't running that many accounts L5 missions are probably a better choice.

Or, join a nulsec corp and just do anomalies :)

More on topic:
I've basically just spent the past three weeks playing around with my UI and ISBoxer setup while training. I've been doing a fair bit of 'safe' ratting in 0.5 space. I can say that my success so far with spider tanking is pretty promising for an Incursion fleet. I think it's probably safer than running dedicated logistics due to the scare of neuting.

Once I get everything set up 'perfectly' Mokoi and myself will be doing some videos showcasing setups, thoughts etc.

[CMKCot]

multiboxing L5s is fun as far as a multiboxing experience goes, you will get jumped on, you will have plenty of fleets engaging you. the problem is you wont make isk, you will barely break even.

if you go with 3 or so ships, you will either need to pimp them or it will take too long to clear, and if you fly expensive stuff or too many ships, you WILL get jumped on. don't doubt it. you will show up on intel channels as soon as you complete a mission or two due to the NPC killed stat. (damn free intel...)

in the end due to their static nature, the only way to do LvL5s is to blitz them with an AF and take the missions with the alts. far from a multiboxing experience. anf if you WANT to box them, then you cant really fly anything more expensive than a BC.

if you want to avoid incursions, then wormholes are better for making money, or lowsec exploration which will be much more fun and will make just as much ISK. a C4 will be ideal for Wh. you can do them with t1 cruisers (at least 4) with logi support. lots of isk, lots of pew pew with the random pirates.

and about the Sleipnirs, with perfect gunnery you are looking at 24km with phased (with two T2 Ambit Extensions), that means that 50% of the time you will deal 75% of your DPS, and 50% of the time 50% or less. you are looking at 600dps with 4 gyros + DCUII in the lows (best fit due to heavy penalties on falloff) also that dps is shooting t1 ammo, because shooting faction or T2 will cost you a fortune.

compare that to the 634dps with the SAME tracking up to 32km optimal from absolutions, with about 30% more tank, slightly lower sig (sansha misiles are monstruous) and the 30% tracking increase from effortlessly swiching to multifrecuency for targets under 10km (lasers have instant ammo swich), not to mention the retarded damage increase. (779dps with my skills :o)

the only upside i see on sleipnirs is the "free" midslot you get, you can add a SeBo for faster lock time after jams. obviously, if you only have sleipnirs then they are by far the second best Command ship to use on incursions.

comparing current CS to battleships is kinda pointless... they take forever to warp and align and the lock times are dreadful, T1 bs are twice as expensive as CSs due to rigs and extra fitting, and to reach the same levels of tank they need to be pimped, so they end up being 4x as expensive. which makes the fleet way too vulnerable to Disconnects.

and if you want to upgrade them for pirate ships you are looking at 2 billon a ship. and without resorting to webs the only viable ones are the nightmares. which are still inferior to sleipnirs and absolutions in terms of damage... :/ (tracking and gun signature)

Btw after some practice i got to make 482 million an hour including LP. and that's with only 5 dps... i need to find something to do besides losing t1 cruisers with my main...

[Morganti]

Not me, but thought it might be useful to post here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAbDPHnxLU4 http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1rajki/farming_incursions_12b_an_hour/

[Grondir]

That's a cool video :)

[Morganti]

Aye. He just sits there and buffer tanks everything while depending on the dps being spread around and his ability to alpha to keep him alive? I thought incursions were supposed to be harder than that!

[Grondir]

Yeah. Shame all my toons are missile users lol

[LordsServant]

Ah here I was thinking this would never get off the ground and ppl would ignore it all. :S

I'm mostly focusing on Wspace myself at present - the new marauders HUGELY buffed that a ton tbh. I can dual/triple box paladins and run c5 sites solo for ~600m/isk/h (just 2 paladins so far, could prob break 1b with a 3rd tbh.)

Multiboxers can be extremely powerful in wspace based off our ability to run solid numbers of ships very quickly/easily.

As for iskmaking - isk can be made in a few ways in wspace.

The lowest level of income that's half decent (100-300m/h per char) is blitzing c4 sites. This can be done in a few ways:
-RR Tengus (slowest)
-Assigned Sentry Fleet (previous fastest)
-Bastion marauders (new, probable high speed due to max gank/less tank needed w/bastion)

Next set up is blitzing c5 sites, non fully cap escalated. This can be done:
-RR Tengus (slowest, no escalation)
-Bastion Marauders (decent speed, no escalation)
-Triage Carrier + a few dps BS, mostly DPS t3/CS (decent-slow speed, depends on numbers, beware of mass - single escalation)
-Blapdread + 3(or more) guardians, 1-2 lokis for webbing (fastest, single escalation)

The max amount of isk to be made is with capital escalation setups. This makes generally the same in either c5 or c6, it all depends on number of sites:
-Slowcat Fleet in Cataclysmic - 3+ Archons(no other carrier), (decent-slow speed, double escalation) You can warp in a few dreads for escalation only if needed. Low dps, needs lots of carriers for speed.
-Standard Fleet in all others: 1 archon(triage), 1 carrier(literally anything, only for esca), 2 dreads (naglfar/moros best, others second rate), 1+ webbing lokis (or in very rare circumstances, blinged rapier w/bonuses and pref slaves in certain wh effects)

Standard fleet is the best.

C5 sites fully escalated drop ~700m in loot per site, sometimes more, sometimes a bit less. With a good standard escalation fleet(higher numbers of dreads/lokis than minimum above tbh), you can clear the esca waves from an anom in <10m, only a single siege cycle.

If folks are up for some wspace stuff, I'm in what is one of the top dog WH alliances atm(Disavowed). I have an alt corp in the alliance...if folks want to setup in a different WH besides our own to try out some iskmaking/wspace pew I'd be fine doing that. I use the isk I made for pvp tho, I don't see the point in endlessly whoring isk for no reason.

Multiboxers in wspace if in the proper fleet comps could be hella powerful(and make hella isk).

My endgame goal is to be able to multibox my own slowcat fleet - in wspace those would be insane and generally near impossible to counter.

If we could get enough multiboxers together with lots of archon pilots, we could base out of (or take over) any c5 or c6 if we built up enough slowcats inside (either by ragerolling them in or literal production - for you miner types there is lots of ore in wspace, but its not as safe as nullsec, tho with ceptors nowadays, who knows).

[Mokoi]

Lords, whats your in game name? I have so many q's about whole id love to pick your brain.

[Morganti]

I've been thinking about hitting wormholes up again. I have 5 mains with 4 of them carrier capable and 3 dread capable. Think I've got a thanny and 3 archons sitting in lowsec atm, but my drone skills are so-so on all but 1 guy. Would take me a month of training or so to run a good slowcat fleet. Only one of my guys is in a "good" dread (moros) with the other two a Rev and *cough* Phoenix. Tengu's are all in various states of being trained on them. I normally fly 3 BS (Amarr + Any + Any) and 2 Logi (Guardian or Basi) or some variation thereof. My second logi pilot is also a Damnation pilot.

[LordsServant]

My "main" ingame is Lord's Servant. Don't forget the ' - there's some dude named Lords Servant in a corp called "slave holdings" that is NOT me.

I currently need to grind isk to expand my carrier fleet. ;)

If folks are up we could setup either in lower class WHs (c4 or c2), or in a c5/c6 doing one of the methods I described above.

It all depends how much interest we have in this tbh.

My alliance's ticker should keep most of the average groups off our back.

[Morganti]

I've lived in 1-4's before, but never a 5 or 6, so I'd prefer to go for one of those :D I'm up for bringing whatever I need to...carriers, dreads, T3's, whatever. What timezone are you in btw? I'm central US.

[Mosg2]

I'm stone-cold interested in moving into WH space but Mokoi and myself are at about the same amount of SP--IE, we're more than a month out from being about to respectably fly our planned blob of 20x Tengus.

[LordsServant]

I'm technically east coast US tz - but I play all sorts of TZs depending on when I can get on eve.

From the sounds of it, we'd be better off setting up in a c2 with a primary static of c4 or c5, or a c4 w/c4 or c5 static.

c5 sites can be run (non escalated) with groups of RR tengus or bastioned marauders.

You could also run logi + dps as well tbh.

If we can consistently pull decent numbers, I'd suggest starting with a c4 or c2 w/c5 static.

That way plenty of sites(with the exception of escalations, your main source of sites comes from your static), but with less chance of getting evicted by capitals (and no chance of BU login trap killing caps).

I'd also feel a bit more comfy making sure everyone has understanding of wspace stuff before we go into c5/c6.

If we DO go into c5/c6, if folks are willing to put a slightly higher emphasis on pvp (and oh god it'd be hilarious if we got a few folks multiboxing srsly in addition to my alliances fleets - we top out at about 40-50, if we got 5 multiboxers each rolling 10 deep shit could get hilarious).

And that's another point I have - unlike kspace, where you end up with folks batphoning everyone and their dog to come blob the piss out of you, in wspace there is no huge batphone. You can generally only rely on the ppl IN your WH.

My alliance rolls <50, but we're one of the most feared alliances in wspace. With multiboxers being able to throw up very solid numbers, we'd be able to field numbers likely on par with most other entities, if not more. We wouldn't be quite as effective ship to ship due to how multiboxing works, but I've got some ideas for workarounds for that.

What kind of ships do you guys multibox? I don't have huge numbers (and I'd prefer to keep my mains in my home WH for pvp), but I can throw a few chars at this.

I would honestly prefer to generally stay away from expensive stuff like marauders until everyone gets a better understanding of wspace, and we all get to know each other(don't want expensive stuff exploding due to derp).

A c2 / c4 static has 2b mass, anything involving c5 (at least going towards c5) has 3b mass.

As a rule of thumb, BS are about 100m mass, so if we had a c2-->c4 we're talking about 20 BS one way. You'd only be able to field 10 BS at a time in order to get back home. With a 3b mass hole, that number goes up to 30 bs.

In general, you want to stick to BC hulls and smaller - 8-16m mass each, thus increasing your maximum numbers literally 10fold.

Another thing about wspace, is that depending on what hole you're in, you may not be able to run your preferred setup.

A c4 with pulsar effect means 27% less armor resists, and a wolf rayet means the same, but 27% less shield resists instead. (wolf rayet gives 27% BONUS to armor resists, pulsar gives 68% bonus to shield HP in a c4).

These all scale upwards, so the bonuses are better, but the drawbacks even worse in c5 WHs.

I'd personally suggest going with massed BC/t3/CS run with logi support for starters, altho this all depends on what you guys multibox, and synergy between all of us. :)

[LordsServant]

I should probably make a new thread so folks aren't confused by thead title too :S

[Morganti]

I've multiboxed spider tanked battleships in wormholes way back in the day (didn't work that well tbh), but now I usually run a 3 BS/2 Logi setup for level 5 missions. All 5 of my pilots can T2 tank shield or armor and all have BC 5 in every race. For T3's I can almost put them all in Tengu's with T2 Heavy Missiles (my mostly Amarr toon is lagging behind in getting in the tengu). My main main can also fly a Proteus and my Amarr guy can sit in a Legion. My 2 logi pilots can fly either Guardians or Basi's. One of the logi pilots can also fly command ships though she only has T2 boosts for armored warfare. Most of my T3 experience is in level 4 and 5 missions. I ran a super passive tanked tengu as the tank for a 3 man team in 5's using oracles to do the killing (before they changed AI). I keep having a fantasy about using auto-targeting missiles on alts orbiting my anchor main who does tackle, but I don't trust the auto targeting AI enough to try it.

[rabidbanana]

In the past I have done some WH ops with a 4box setup. I just subbed to 10 accounts recently and was considering doing Wspace stuff again. Two pilots can do basilisk logi and the two other can pilot tengu. The new pilots aren't quite there yet...

[Crionic]

In response to OP, I'm getting into multiboxing incursions myself and would be interested in grouping up at least long enough to test the waters and trade some ideas.

On a similar note, does anyone have some base numbers for incursions. With so many people trying to get into incursion multiboxing it would be nice to have an idea of the minimum tank and dps needed for soloing. Currently I'm running 11 accounts (8 abaddons, 2 guardians w/ L5 logi, and an off grid booster). I'm a bit scared to try one on my own being that I don't have a strong fleet booster, slave implants, or t2 guns yet.

[Alzuule]

Currently i have 6 accounts active, 3 of them are at 60m sp and should be a short train from flying whatever subcap is needed. at the moment im training the third one to be able to fly ishtar with t2 sentries for c4 sites. 2 of the characters can fly tengu with all t2 fit while the third is a month of so off. 2 of them can fly guardian/basilisk. sign me up if theres enough interest in setting us multiboxers up in a WH :-) i wont be much on eve up till christmas but ill be training my characters up for t2 large energy turrets and ishtar with t2 sentries for now, whenever you find out what direction we should go in with regards to sleeper ships then do tell so i can start training up for that.

[Morganti]

After talking to Lord's a few nights back the general ship order I'm shooting for is Tengu, Sentry Ishtar, Sentry Archon. Tengu's are mostly trained as are Archons, but not T2 sentry drones which I need on 4 out of 5 of my guys. Ishtar will be the last to be trained. We're talking c4 farming until we get numbers and people learn wormhole living. Loki is a boat he asked about that I can't fly but would obviously be useful for the sentry drone doctrines. I'll be training one of my guys up for it who's ahead of the others on the above fits.

[Steel Dragon]

Lord I am interested in running the c5/c6 sites. I have lived in a c3 static c4 and solved these with no issues but I want the good stuff.
I currently have 9 accounts of these I can field:
8 tengus ( 3 are also Loki pilots and 5 are proteus pilots) but all 8 have faction /t2 tengus
5 logi (4 of them are logi 5) basi and onerios
I currently have 2 carriers and 3 dreads (nidhoggers and moreos)
My primary is a perfect booster (any race) and has fc4 skill
Also I can field 7 sentry ishtars (also I can fly 5 slow.cats just don't have atm)
Also I have excellent probing skills and can basically do anything needed

I will contact you in game to discuss it more.

[Alzuule]

Do we have a ingame channel that people can join? would be nice so that one could see how many others are generally online in their timezone :-)

[Mokoi]

I joined the multiboxing channels when i started, but I found them empty in my Asian time zone.

[Morganti]

dual-boxing.com is the ingame channel

[CMKCot]

In response to OP, I'm getting into multiboxing incursions myself and would be interested in grouping up at least long enough to test the waters and trade some ideas.

On a similar note, does anyone have some base numbers for incursions. With so many people trying to get into incursion multiboxing it would be nice to have an idea of the minimum tank and dps needed for soloing. Currently I'm running 11 accounts (8 abaddons, 2 guardians w/ L5 logi, and an off grid booster). I'm a bit scared to try one on my own being that I don't have a strong fleet booster, slave implants, or t2 guns yet.

abbadons are not a good idea. what they gain in resists they lose on signature. also their resists gain is 4% to all per level, due to your sig you want Exp/Kin over Therm/EM, so half the bonus goes to waste.

not to mention you don't have room for enough SeBos, and a lower base Scanres, an *apocalipse will out do it many times over thanks to its lower signature and hull bonus. and a navy apoc will be even better.

also, don't get slaves, EHP is worthless, what you want is effective reps. if you must get a set, get Halos. a set of LG halos will be far cheaper and much more effective.

and don't worry about T2 guns, all guns of the same kind have the same base tracking, the difference is damage, and so long a group of 4 guns*(number of ships) blaps a frig, extra damage is meaningless. get tracking first, such as motion prediction V, before you get the LEnergy guns to V.

if you want to join for incursions you can contact me in-game or on SiSi