BG Queue Assist AddOns

[MiRai]

Word on the street is that patch 5.1 has broken said add-ons. I'm sure we'll find out shortly if there is a workaround for this or if this is a permanent change.

Blizzard has mentioned before (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3523403390?page=5#94) that they frown upon these add-ons, so this could be the end of them.

[daanji]

Yep. Looks like Blizzard changed the API slightly to break the JoinBattleField function.


The entire Battle ground PvP community is up in arms over oQueue being broken.

More details can be found here

1. TinyMasher's Thread Introducing oQueue (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7178928524?page=1) (deleted)

2. Main Complaint Thread asking for a Response (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200032168) (UI and Macros Forum, thread is now capped)

2A. Main Complaint Thread asking for a Response Part 2 (UI and Macros Forum) (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200052820)

3. EU Thread (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5966976836?page=1)

4. Tiny's EU Thread (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5967268533)

5. Tiny's New oQueue Introduction Thread (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200182441)

6. Tiny's BG JoinBattleField Thread (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200052826)

7. GhostCrawler's Stance on Premades (https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/273996272371896320)


Voice your opinion and let them know what you think of this change:

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler
https://twitter.com/CM_Zarhym
https://twitter.com/robpsimpson

Looks like Ghostcrawler already reponded with this

>Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
>@Skyl3lazer I *think* that was an unforeseen consequence of a change we had to make to >prevent an exploit. We'll investigate more.

[ebony]

most the topics have been deleted on this.

[JohnGabriel]

Maybe just maybe it was an accident and blizzard will bring it back.

He would know if they made a change like that on purpose right?



Skyl3lazer ‏@Skyl3lazer (https://twitter.com/Skyl3lazer) @ghostcrawler (https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler) Please respond, you broke oQueue :(


Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler (https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler)
@Skyl3lazer (https://twitter.com/Skyl3lazer) I *think* that was an unforeseen consequence of a change we had to make to prevent an exploit. We'll investigate more.

[daanji]

Wow! Guess that means they responded alright.

Deleting all the topics threads sends a nice, clear message of "We don't care."

This will just enrage the PvP community more. I'm sure 10x threads have already been created in protest.

oQueue was recently featured on Reddit, so I'm sure the Reddit community will mobilize soon enough.


Hopefully Blizzard will at least have to acknowledge this.

[Khatovar]

Wow! Guess that means they responded alright.

Deleting all the topics threads sends a nice, clear message of "We don't care."


Or it sends a nice clear message of "don't spam create threads if there's already one on this topic." Considering 3 of the 4 threads you linked are still active, I'd hardly call that a great big FU.

[heyaz]

Hey. Relax.

Forums get flooded with garbage, threads quickly derailed and turned into flame wars, and a flurry of duplicate posts about the same issues. From a forum moderator's perspective, I can understand what may have happened to a lot of the threads. I would really try not to blow a gasket over what happens or doesn't happen in forum threads on battle.net, or anywhere for that matter.

Let's chill out a bit and wait for an official response? They already acknowledged they are aware of it. "Mobilizing" a bunch of internet retards and threatening to cancel your accounts and this and that isn't going to speed up their processes inside Blizzard.

They've removed/blocked API functions many times to stop exploits or other creative use of game mechanics by abusing the API, often times breaking legitimate addons they that they did not have a problem with. I'm hoping oQueue and other premade BG type addons were not a target... they really shouldn't be. I still remember when they broke Decursive in vanilla... on purpose, and it sucked by I understood why. I hope that wasn't the intention this time - to break addons.

Although I like oQ, have loved premades since Vanilla and used Premade AV Enabler and even led raids manually, ultimately we can survive without it. I really doubt many of you are going to cancel your accounts; it's hard to believe your entire reason for playing wow - leveling up, gearing, multiboxing, was to do AV rath strats using OQ endlessly... as fun as it is, there's plenty more to do...

[ElectronDF]

Is this related to "A macro script has been blocked from an action only available to the Blizzard UI" when I use /run AcceptBattlefieldPort(1,1)?

[ebony]

Is this related to "A macro script has been blocked from an action only available to the Blizzard UI" when I use /run AcceptBattlefieldPort(1,1)?

yes


all them bots in bg's (we seeing more and more off) are using a script like this.

[heyaz]

The bots will just go back to clicking manually like they did in Vanilla I think (I always used to see people, bots I'm guessing, standing practically inside the pvp queue guy 24/7), or inject something into memory to click it. Warden is probably much better at detecting that than /run a script but, this isn't going to kill bots by any means.

I heard something said about xp-off guys exploiting it, afk debuffs, something about WG and TB, and what not... nothing about bots specifically. This API change is pointless, I'd google the wow bots if I cared, they probably already implemented a click to enter or something. Something isn't right here

[F9thRet]

And this ladies and gentlemen, is reason # 42 of why I love our community. I know exactly where Heyaz is coming from, from Moderating not just gaming forums, but Political forums, and everything in between.

But yeah, IT is a bummer, I was planning on throwing some Shamans together, and finish leveling them to 90 via BG's. Oh well, it happens.



Hey. Relax.

Forums get flooded with garbage, threads quickly derailed and turned into flame wars, and a flurry of duplicate posts about the same issues. From a forum moderator's perspective, I can understand what may have happened to a lot of the threads. I would really try not to blow a gasket over what happens or doesn't happen in forum threads on battle.net, or anywhere for that matter.

Let's chill out a bit and wait for an official response? They already acknowledged they are aware of it. "Mobilizing" a bunch of internet retards and threatening to cancel your accounts and this and that isn't going to speed up their processes inside Blizzard.

They've removed/blocked API functions many times to stop exploits or other creative use of game mechanics by abusing the API, often times breaking legitimate addons they that they did not have a problem with. I'm hoping oQueue and other premade BG type addons were not a target... they really shouldn't be. I still remember when they broke Decursive in vanilla... on purpose, and it sucked by I understood why. I hope that wasn't the intention this time - to break addons.

Although I like oQ, have loved premades since Vanilla and used Premade AV Enabler and even led raids manually, ultimately we can survive without it. I really doubt many of you are going to cancel your accounts; it's hard to believe your entire reason for playing wow - leveling up, gearing, multiboxing, was to do AV rath strats using OQ endlessly... as fun as it is, there's plenty more to do...

[Ualaa]

You can still queue as a group or solo.

At the moment, you cannot queue as a raid.
Whether that is Oqueue (Group leader queue their groups) or Preform AV Enabler (Everyone queues as an individual), via a single button press by the raid leader.

You can still have a single boxer use their 5-man group as the group leaders of your raid (a raid that hasn't actually been converted to a raid).
Each leading (via Real ID) a group of their own.
Then use Repeater, to have each queue as a group, which would be pretty much clicking the button at once.
Then if the queues pop almost at once, take them... and if not, drop the queue and try again.

[zenga]

Ghostcrawler responded yesterday in a sarcastic way to this on his twitter. (https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/273996272371896320)

I understand that people are upset about this, but be aware that there was a reason why they made it so that premade raids can't queue up together. What those addons did was circumvent that intent. Which got fixed now.

You can still queue up with 4 friends for a random BG.
If you want organized BG's, you should do rated bg's or war games.

Never understood why it was so hard to see that concept.

[Fat Tire]

I am happy with this change and I wish they got rid of any and all ways to circumvent the queuing system.

However, if blizzard really puts there foot down on stopping the botting issue it will hurt almost all boxers. The scripts that bots run nowadays are more advanced and they utilize click-to-move, now that would be something to get upset about.

[valkry]

Hey. Relax.

Forums get flooded with garbage, threads quickly derailed and turned into flame wars, and a flurry of duplicate posts about the same issues. From a forum moderator's perspective, I can understand what may have happened to a lot of the threads. I would really try not to blow a gasket over what happens or doesn't happen in forum threads on battle.net, or anywhere for that matter.

Let's chill out a bit and wait for an official response? They already acknowledged they are aware of it. "Mobilizing" a bunch of internet retards and threatening to cancel your accounts and this and that isn't going to speed up their processes inside Blizzard.

They've removed/blocked API functions many times to stop exploits or other creative use of game mechanics by abusing the API, often times breaking legitimate addons they that they did not have a problem with. I'm hoping oQueue and other premade BG type addons were not a target... they really shouldn't be. I still remember when they broke Decursive in vanilla... on purpose, and it sucked by I understood why. I hope that wasn't the intention this time - to break addons.

Although I like oQ, have loved premades since Vanilla and used Premade AV Enabler and even led raids manually, ultimately we can survive without it. I really doubt many of you are going to cancel your accounts; it's hard to believe your entire reason for playing wow - leveling up, gearing, multiboxing, was to do AV rath strats using OQ endlessly... as fun as it is, there's plenty more to do...I'm not too worried, seems they are aware of it and didn't intend for it to happen so fingers crossed they fix it back. As for decursive, I never used it, and I used to heal up to naxx back at lvl 60. Xperl, ktm and dmg meters were the only addons I used, then later pirate speak

Edit:
/click StaticPopup1Button1
/Click ExtraActionButton1
/click LFDRoleCheckPopupAcceptButton
/click LFGDungeonReadyDialogEnterDungeonButton

will still get your whole group to join a BG

[Ualaa]

I am happy with this change and I wish they got rid of any and all ways to circumvent the queuing system.

However, if blizzard really puts there foot down on stopping the botting issue it will hurt almost all boxers. The scripts that bots run nowadays are more advanced and they utilize click-to-move, now that would be something to get upset about.

The whole CTM/IWT was put into the game to help people with disabilities.
Sure, Blizzard could remove those features... but that means making the game less accessible to those with special needs.

I doubt Blizzard would do that, but it's their game... they can make the changes they want to.
There are other options out there, with numerous free to play games too.

[Cptan]

You can still queue up with 4 friends for a random BG.
If you want organized BG's, you should do rated bg's or war games.

Never understood why it was so hard to see that concept.



Although I like oQ, have loved premades since Vanilla and used Premade AV Enabler and even led raids manually, ultimately we can survive without it. I really doubt many of you are going to cancel your accounts; it's hard to believe your entire reason for playing wow - leveling up, gearing, multiboxing, was to do AV rath strats using OQ endlessly... as fun as it is, there's plenty more to do...

Well said.

[Clovis]

The whole CTM/IWT was put into the game to help people with disabilities.
Sure, Blizzard could remove those features... but that means making the game less accessible to those with special needs.


By special needs, do you mean multiboxers? Because I'm pretty sure Blizz put IWT in just for us to spark the melee boxer revolution ;)

[jstanthr]

Ghostcrawler responded yesterday in a sarcastic way to this on his twitter. (https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/273996272371896320)

I understand that people are upset about this, but be aware that there was a reason why they made it so that premade raids can't queue up together. What those addons did was circumvent that intent. Which got fixed now.

You can still queue up with 4 friends for a random BG.
If you want organized BG's, you should do rated bg's or war games.

Never understood why it was so hard to see that concept.


and his earlier post said it was an unintended side effect, why can't they just say one way or the other ?

[daanji]

Or it sends a nice clear message of "don't spam create threads if there's already one on this topic." Considering 3 of the 4 threads you linked are still active, I'd hardly call that a great big FU.


Well, it may be considered spam by someone who is not a vested member of the oQueue community, but I'd lean towards calling it a protest or a demonstration.

Blizzard has a history of ignoring the PvP community and omitting certain feature changes in patch notes without ever acknowledging them. In the past, it has taken formal protests (IE forum spam, as that is really the only method we have to be heard) to get a response from Blizzard or even acknowledged.

Sarcastic tweets from the Lead System Designer doesn't help in this regard.

I am against spam as much as anyone, but the oQueue community is very large and each individual finds out about the change in their own time and creates their own thread.
If you observe the threads, the majority of the posts are users who rarely visit the forums from a lot of different users. It is not a handful of people spamming the thread (except for the trolls, who seem to be very active).

Now, as to my comment on Reddit, it was more of an observation on that community. They have a tendency to mobilize on topics they feel passionate about, so I anticipate at least some organize response from those users. I am not advocating they do so as non-constructive spam is pointless. However, formal and organized protests can be useful. Blizzard values our feedback and opinion. Sadly, it seems the only way to get important community topics noticed is to be loud and verbal.

Case in point, Blizzard relocated the Leave Battleground button to be right next to the Show ScoreBoard button. Unfortunately, this caused people to accidentally click on the wrong button and get the deserted buff. The battleground forums were aflame with posts from tons of users who hated this change and wanted it moved. Blizzard did not acknowledge or respond to this issue that many in the PvP community felt was important. Yet, with 5.1 they finally relocated a button. Sure, it is a small change that only affect a small amount of people, but it does show that by protesting and making your opinion heard, you can influence the game.

[ebony]

Next fix is to stop groups queuing on at the same time though vent etc. it make bg's more random then just all press GO at the same times at this was talked about in pvp blogs. it be using the queuing tech they use for LFG/LFR not whoever presses to join button 1st.


i can see follow will being removed soon from bg's as well.

[Ualaa]

If you're five-boxing or less, not queuing as a raid is not the end of the world.
If you're doing more than one group, getting your whole team into the same battleground is quite important.

You can still use Oqueue for Rated Battlegrounds.
You can use it to find players for a five-man group, from multiple servers.

Ultimately, you could get a lot of people into a Vent channel, even way more than the BG allows.
And have everyone queue at once for a BG.
Then take the queue if a lot of people "ding" at once, or within a very short window.
Blizzard is not going to stop people from attempting to get a raid into a BG.
And over time the best solution to the problem will be found.

About the only way to really break it, would be to move away from Alliance vs Horde.
If it was half the total players are 'Red' and half are 'Blue', irregardless of their starting faction; or even better/worse, having a dozen 'Teams' in the same BG.
And the side you get in any given game is completely random and can change from each game...
Well, you could not determine a team in advance, or skew chance in favor by only joining games that pop near the same time as others who you hope to play with...

[Oathbreaker]

Looks like it was intentional per the following blue post:
I just posted a sticky on this subject here:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7199643338#1

In patch 5.1, we resolved some issues regarding how Addons interact with the Battleground queue system. It is no longer possible to automate queuing for standard or random Battlegrounds in groups larger than 5. We decided to make this change in order to improve the experience for all players who are queueing into random groups normally and expecting to face similarly random groups, only to find themselves crushed by a full team of coordinated opponents.
We understand that players want to enjoy coordinated team play, and we invite those players to queue into Rated Battlegrounds or play Wargames to have that experience. Players can continue to use Addons to queue for Rated Battlegrounds as well.

[Ualaa]

There's an oQueue group on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/oqueue/

[Ughmahedhurtz]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7199643338#1
Reading that thread...ouch. WoW PVP forum whiners haven't gotten any smarter, that's for sure. "Waaaa! You guys planned better than I did! Nerf planning!"

Also interesting to note that it appears the only people really, truly interested in fostering a more entertaining BG environment are multiboxers.

[zenga]

Reading that thread...ouch. WoW PVP forum whiners haven't gotten any smarter, that's for sure. "Waaaa! You guys planned better than I did! Nerf planning!"
There is already a planned BG environment, and it's called rated battlegrounds. The idea behind random battlegrounds is that they are random. Trying to game the random aspect of random battlegrounds is silly. When you participate into random play, you accept a certain handicap on your side and expect a certain handicap on the other side, there is only a limited level of coordination possible with random play (i.e. what is possible through BG chat and what is possible with small groups; but that is clearly not a full premade raid).

It's beyond my mind that people I consider very reasonable from what they tend to post over time on this board. don't seem to understand the concept behind random battlegrounds and rated bg's.

[Ualaa]

The majority of users on this site box at least four toons.
Many box five or ten toons.

Four or five toons is a severe drawback to your team, in most 10-man battleground environments.
It is increased power, but loss of flexibility in the 15-man battlegrounds with EotS being the one that really shines for 5-boxers.
AB isn't particularly good or bad boxed.

The 40-man BGs are the primary strong option for 5-box and 10-box teams.
They are not an option for Rated Battleground play, only the smaller BGs where boxing is usually a disadvantage for your team.

Does it surprise you that most boxers prefer to run the 40-man BGs over the 10-man & 15-man BGs?



Similarly, is it surprising that people want to play with their friends?
Or that they want to coordinate to win their battlegrounds?

Sure, I agree that when it is 30 coordinated boxed toons, in a 40-man battleground...
And the other side is randoms, it is not exactly fair.
Or in the case of RathStrat (Horde) or QQ (Alliance), 25-35 coordinated players boxed or not vs a random group... same lack of fairness.

When we run into an organized opposition, those games are by far the most fun.
Even if we only win half of them.
I would take coordinated vs coordinated play, in 40-man BGs over the current 'Random' or 'Rated' options.

[Fat Tire]

When we run into an organized opposition, those games are by far the most fun.
Even if we only win half of them.
I would take coordinated vs coordinated play, in 40-man BGs over the current 'Random' or 'Rated' options.

You do know you can AV rath vs qq to your hearts content via wargame, right? You dont even need 40v40, you can do 10v10 AV.

Since the only thing you are after is coordinated vs coordinated play.......

[EaTCarbS]

You do know you can AV rath vs qq to your hearts content via wargame, right? You dont even need 40v40, you can do 10v10 AV. Since the only thing you are after is coordinated vs coordinated play....... This is restricted by the fact that you can only challenge someone on your own server to a wargame. While not completely breaking, you'll have to go through the trouble of ensuring that each team has someone from the same server. You also have to factor in that there are no rewards for wargames. Why would someone want to play a bg with no rewards when the game is designed around rewarding people for their actions and contributions?

[Fat Tire]

This is restricted by the fact that you can only challenge someone on your own server to a wargame. While not completely breaking, you'll have to go through the trouble of ensuring that each team has someone from the same server. You also have to factor in that there are no rewards for wargames. Why would someone want to play a bg with no rewards when the game is designed around rewarding people for their actions and contributions?



No more an inconvenience than counting down on vent when to hit the queue button, plus you ensure an even playing field.

Why does there need to be rewards. I thought people just wanted coordinated vs coordinated AV? There it is.

There are rewards rated bgs unless I missed something...in both cases you get to queue with your friends and have coordinated vs coordinated battlegrounds.

[Ualaa]

You do know you can AV rath vs qq to your hearts content via wargame, right? You dont even need 40v40, you can do 10v10 AV.

Since the only thing you are after is coordinated vs coordinated play.......

Sure thing.

Give me honor for the kills... and have the kills count towards my 250,000 HK achievement.
Give me conquest for the first match on the day, or conquest points for each 'Random' 40-man BG victory.

Or alternatively, give me maximum gearing immediately and all of the pvp achieves.
And then Wargames against multiple equally coordinated opponent teams, not the same team each match.
Preferably with multiple boxers on both sides, roughly half multi-box and half solo-boxed.



I want a reward for my play time.
And I want to play coordinated 40 man battlegrounds.
Not 10/15 man games.

[Fat Tire]

Sure thing.

Give me honor for the kills... and have the kills count towards my 250,000 HK achievement.
Give me conquest for the first match on the day, or conquest points for each 'Random' 40-man BG victory.

Or alternatively, give me maximum gearing immediately and all of the pvp achieves.
And then Wargames against multiple equally coordinated opponent teams, not the same team each match.
Preferably with multiple boxers on both sides, roughly half multi-box and half solo-boxed.



I want a reward for my play time.
And I want to play coordinated 40 man battlegrounds.
Not 10/15 man games.


You're playing the wrong game.

[EaTCarbS]

You're playing the wrong game.

Heaven forbid people aren't satisfied with the status quo.

[Fat Tire]

Heaven forbid people aren't satisfied with the status quo.

I agree entirely, I am guessing it was the main reason for the change.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

There is already a planned BG environment, and it's called rated battlegrounds. The idea behind random battlegrounds is that they are random. Trying to game the random aspect of random battlegrounds is silly. When you participate into random play, you accept a certain handicap on your side and expect a certain handicap on the other side, there is only a limited level of coordination possible with random play (i.e. what is possible through BG chat and what is possible with small groups; but that is clearly not a full premade raid).

It's beyond my mind that people I consider very reasonable from what they tend to post over time on this board. don't seem to understand the concept behind random battlegrounds and rated bg's.
Yep, that's the gist of what I got from the blue posts that include words like "roflstomp" and such. As a counterpoint, it surprises me that what seem to be rather obvious fixes to the BG system that people have been requesting for years keep falling on deaf ears, resulting in players being creative in trying to work around the perceived issues. One good example is bots. Bots don't use realID and join premades, for obvious reasons. It must be wholly depressing to look around and realize the other team is 70% premade and yours is 30% bots.

Still, it seems awfully intellectually lazy of Blizzard to just keep nerfing the things people do to make their game more fun instead of just making their game more fun. ;)

[Ualaa]

Incidentally, I don't queue random...
It is either for AV or IoC.

It's not the wrong the game.

Whether you like how I play the game or not, I don't really give a shit.
I accept that you'll play the way that gets you the most enjoyment, which is exactly what I'm doing too.
After all, it is a hobby which is done for fun.

I get that you want the game to be fun, for the masses.
Do you get that I want the game to be fun for boxing 40-man premades?





Would you do raids, if the environment was a War Raid?
You're fresh to 90th, just have leveling gear...
You can do the raid as often as you want, without a lockout.
You get the challenge of the encounters, as often as you like.
But there is no gold reward (nor durability loss), and nothing ever drops...

Or alternatively, you can do some kind of a 10-man raid...
Except every encounter is designed that you cannot win, if you're boxing.
Maybe you need to do eight independent actions at once, so a boxer is a virtually guaranteed loss.
But there is loot for the option you won't win using... or you can play the 'fun' option and never get anything out of it.

That's exactly what you're advocating.

The PvP option of this, is what Blizzard is pushing too.
But queuing as multiple groups, with vent coordination will work around that...

Blizz should bring in the option to queue as a raid 10/15/40.
And when you do, you only get raids of similar size against you.
Not rated and not random, counting as a normal battleground with rewards as per other normal BGs.

[daanji]

don't seem to understand the concept behind random battlegrounds and rated bg's.


Indeed. Random Battle grounds are just that - the battle field is random. Sometimes you are faced with 40 AFKers or bots. Other times you are faced with 40-multi-boxed toons. You can't get more random or diverse than that.

Given the fact that premades in Random Battle Grounds represent a very small fraction of games (I'd wager less than 1%), I don't see it as an issue.

I remember that first time I got rolled by a QQ premade (2 years ago on my 5-box shamans). I was shocked by the coordination and capabilities of the team. Sure, it wasn't fun being graveyard camped for the entire match - but made me want to find out more and play on a team of that level. It was a very memorable game for me and I enjoyed each skirmish and each challenge, success, and fail.

Rated Battlegrounds are Garbage for a variety of reasons. I've played them for 2-years single-box. You spend half the time managing the team and the other half waiting on queues that will never pop.

What oQueue does it gives you the capability to

A. Create a Premade (for Randoms, Rated, Dungeon, Raids, whatever)
B. Advertise that to the social Mesh
C. Allowing interested parties that meet the criteria to find you
D. Quickly create and managed a Premade
E. Fill replacements very quickly

This is so simple, yet Blizzard has never implemented anything like this in game for PvP. Finding Premades for anything is limited to Trade Chat (filled with trolls) or forums, both of which aren't that effectively.

If you want to get home from work and roll an RBG within 5-minutes, good luck. When I was part of a PvP guild that did nothing but Rateds on my old server, it still took way too much time and energy to get it going (even with a weekly schedule). We'd have no shows and have to fill the spots, which would take too much time and the group would fall apart.

[daanji]

In other news, the latest version of oQueue can now queue everyone for Battlegrounds like it did before. Tiny worked extra hard this weekend to devise a work around.

This version is dedicated to Ghostcrawler, in his honor.

http://solidice.com/oqueue/

[Fat Tire]

In other news, the latest version of oQueue can now queue everyone for Battlegrounds like it did before. Tiny worked extra hard this weekend to devise a work around.

This version is dedicated to Ghostcrawler, in his honor.

http://solidice.com/oqueue/



This is not something that we are encouraging, but it is also something that we currently have no realistic way to prevent. That being said, this is something that may change soon, which is why we always advise people to not use any type of add-on designed to circumvent or bend our balancing safeguards... using such add-ons can lead to severe account penalties!

I am curious on how when people talk about botting, wintrading and other means of breaking the eula the posts are deleted yet this thread has been allowed.

[MiRai]

I am curious on how when people talk about botting, wintrading and other means of breaking the eula the posts are deleted yet this thread has been allowed.
I missed the part of the blue post that states such an add-on was against the EULA (such as win-trading or botting), and I think we all know that blue posts have been incorrect before (after all, they're human).

If Blizzard frowns upon something they'll change it like we just witnessed with the latest patch, and oQueue most likely has a limited lifespan at this point because Blizzard will just fix the 'loophole'. As to when they'll get around to doing that is anybody's guess.

[Fat Tire]

I missed the part of the blue post that states such an add-on was against the EULA (such as win-trading or botting), and I think we all know that blue posts have been incorrect before (after all, they're human).



using such add-ons can lead to severe account penalties!


Just to clarify.

[MiRai]

using such add-ons can lead to severe account penalties!


Just to clarify my reasoning.
You're right, I remember those AV Preform Enabler ban waves Blizzard has every few months.

[Fat Tire]

You're right, I remember those AV Preform Enabler ban waves Blizzard has every few months.

I have never been banned for cheating or botting so that argument is irrelevant. I am talking about the reputation of the site.

[MiRai]

I have never been banned for cheating or botting so that argument is irrelevant. I am talking about the reputation of the site.
Good guy Fat Tire.

[Fat Tire]

Good guy Fat Tire.

Yup. We can hope blizzard starts to ban individuals who consistently circumvent the queue system.

Nice edit btw

[MiRai]

Nice edit btw
Thanks. It's not a secret that it's been edited because everyone can see that information publicly.

[Fat Tire]

Thanks. It's not a secret that it's been edited because everyone can see that information publicly.

Right, but they cant see what was edited only that it was edited by you correct?

[MiRai]

Right, but they cant see what was edited only that it was edited by you correct?
Unless you have further information to add to the thread, please stop de-railing it.

Talk of oQueue is welcome here until further notice.

[ebony]

queuing at the same time will still happen am sure off it. In till they change the hole Queuing system to be random and not just who press JOIN 1st this xpac? or next xpac no one will knows.

AV Preform Enabler Only got to a prob when users find out you cloud do it with battle tags/real Id grouping. Before that it was a very very small group off players on a server and to be fair even blizzard did not care that much about it. thats why the for six years we never had a prob with addons like this.


or wow just turned into a cry baby's over the years in pvp. infect i think even a blue post said no one going to be happy with pvp when there's only one spell left in the game AUTO attack.

The prob is how far are blizzard going to take it? they banned this addon whats next all pemade groups? a ten man when half the BG is pemade is uinfair in a random......

A) all pemades have to do RBG. ( i can see this as blizzard love them there a joke win treading steamrolled by full gear played with a low rating Nothing for losing only winning!)

B) all pemades will be vs Pemades only! (to be fair might as well do the top choice)


And then there QQ about us in pvp am sure we are next on the UNFAIR list!!!!!!!!! But hey they remove pemades from randoms then back to point A we car't que for a BG as the system will not que us togaver (full new random pvp queing system is in place) no addon no pemade joining we stuck to RBG's. or pemade vs pemade. (that might as well be RBG)

this is what pvp in bg's will be like in the next 6 months!

[Ualaa]

The game is, and for quite a while has been moving towards, the lowest common multiplier.

The entire addon system has immensely simplified the game.
An addon can tell you when a boss is going to be doing something, and that you should move away.
If can highlight when a debuff is on a target that you should cleanse.
You can repeatedly click a button, and have it reapply your buffs.

In Everquest, prior to addons (if there are addons now, not sure)...
You would buff yourself and then the Melee.
A different Enchanter would buff themselves and then the Casters.
When your buff was getting low, it would be your responsibility to recast the buffs before they expired.

You would have to watch how the boss emoted.
Or time that 37 seconds after the adds show up the boss does his AoE move that kills anyone within range.

By playing to the masses, and making content doable by everyone... Blizzard has become immensely successful.

That said, PvP (a war between the Alliance and the Horde) is not necessarily balanced.
Nothing is ever going to be equal in every regard.
One player is going to be better than another, one might enchant better or glyph worse or reforge while another does not.
Tradeskills will be different, with varying bonuses.
One side will cooperate and the other won't.
There might be 75% bots on one side.
One side might have two healers out of forty characters, while the other side has eleven...

[Ughmahedhurtz]

The game is, and for quite a while has been moving towards, the lowest common multiplier.

The entire addon system has immensely simplified the game.
An addon can tell you when a boss is going to be doing something, and that you should move away.
If can highlight when a debuff is on a target that you should cleanse.
You can repeatedly click a button, and have it reapply your buffs.

In Everquest, prior to addons (if there are addons now, not sure)...
You would buff yourself and then the Melee.
A different Enchanter would buff themselves and then the Casters.
When your buff was getting low, it would be your responsibility to recast the buffs before they expired.

You would have to watch how the boss emoted.
Or time that 37 seconds after the adds show up the boss does his AoE move that kills anyone within range.

By playing to the masses, and making content doable by everyone... Blizzard has become immensely successful.

That said, PvP (a war between the Alliance and the Horde) is not necessarily balanced.
Nothing is ever going to be equal in every regard.
One player is going to be better than another, one might enchant better or glyph worse or reforge while another does not.
Tradeskills will be different, with varying bonuses.
One side will cooperate and the other won't.
There might be 75% bots on one side.
One side might have two healers out of forty characters, while the other side has eleven...

Are you implying that Blizzard is uninterested in the "hardcore" PVP crowd and/or they're trying to drive the "hardcore" PVP people into Arenas/RBGs exclusively while leaving the normal BGs to the Great Unwashed?

[daanji]

It appears that Prepared is now using oQueue. He managed to get several perfect 40-boxed queues in a row with it. Good times.

[EaTCarbS]

My only concern is whether or not Blizzard is putting in time to fix the real problems with the game, instead of silly stunts like trying to break premade addons.

[valkry]

My only concern is whether or not Blizzard is putting in time to fix the real problems with the game, instead of silly stunts like trying to break premade addons.
I agree. I wish they would stop wasting time on stupid shit like this and worry about important things, like month long bugged quests, class balance, or actually getting some GMs to JOIN a BG and SEE the sheer number of bots in there... my god!!

[Fat Tire]

I’ll try to break it down as clearly as I can:

Any addon that enables a full, organized Battleground group to queue against a randomly assembled group is creating a scenario where that coordinated group has a huge advantage. That is not in the spirit of the experience we want to provide in the normal Battleground queue. Playing with friends is fun and important, but it shouldn't come at the expense of the spirit of the game nor the fun of others.

The normal Battleground queue is for players to jump in and play against other players in a similar situation. We realize that it's not a perfect system, and we're still looking at ways to improve normal Battleground queues further. Regardless, it's not meant for organized groups to "pug stomp" and get quick Honor. We have built in outlets for players that want to organize--if a competitive, social experience was really the goal, then there are clear ways to achieve that.

The ultimate effect that this kind of queuing has had is to drive players away from PvP. Perhaps it's been a long time since you've been in a random group, but a lot of players will see that they're up against a premade and simply quit. At best, they suffer through it. To an extent premade groups count on this. Heck, one of the popular addons announces opposing players that appear to have rage quit.

Addons aren’t really a viable solution for botting issues, but we do take those issues seriously and we'll continue our work on improvements to the Battleground system, including better ways to deal with botting and other exploitative gameplay.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200052820?page=11

[candlebox]

Because "Pug Stomping" is a huge issue. Good call bliz.

Economy-In toilet
World-Large radiation leaks and explosive sinkholes, Mass murders (Egypt), Fake wars
Wow-A pay to play app for you Ipad, and will probably be a Facebook ap soon.

I think we are close to the end my friends. Wow is becoming a complete dictatorshiped game w/ no creativity. Everything is the same, people want to cry for fairness because this is not COD. The WoW ship looks like its taking water and sinking fast. I never here of anyone talking about xpacs or raiding anymore like they used to. I might be moving to planetside myself.

[Multibocks]

Because "Pug Stomping" is a huge issue. Good call bliz.

Economy-In toilet
World-Large radiation leaks and explosive sinkholes, Mass murders (Egypt), Fake wars
Wow-A pay to play app for you Ipad, and will probably be a Facebook ap soon.

I think we are close to the end my friends. Wow is becoming a complete dictatorshiped game w/ no creativity. Everything is the same, people want to cry for fairness because this is not COD. The WoW ship looks like its taking water and sinking fast. I never here of anyone talking about xpacs or raiding anymore like they used to. I might be moving to planetside myself.


You are some kind of whack job.

[JohnGabriel]

Because "Pug Stomping" is a huge issue. Good call bliz.

Economy-In toilet
World-Large radiation leaks and explosive sinkholes, Mass murders (Egypt), Fake wars
Wow-A pay to play app for you Ipad, and will probably be a Facebook ap soon.

I think we are close to the end my friends. Wow is becoming a complete dictatorshiped game w/ no creativity. Everything is the same, people want to cry for fairness because this is not COD. The WoW ship looks like its taking water and sinking fast. I never here of anyone talking about xpacs or raiding anymore like they used to. I might be moving to planetside myself.

I do remember a time when you had to bring mages for clearing the trash, rogues for the boss fights, and palis for the buffs. Nowadays it does seem like you can replace any one class with another and you will be fine.

I dont necessarily see that as a bad thing, pros and cons for everything.

[daanji]

There is nothing against queueing up for a Battleground at the same time as others.

Taken from this thread: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2743811244?page=1#new-post

Of course, this is from over a year ago. Clearly, they have changed their stance since then.



If players want to share their RealIDs and group up to run Battlegrounds together, that's their prerogative. This doesn't guarantee them a win, although any level of organisation helps when taking part in a battleground of course.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3389171453?page=22#425


One last point, since you mentioned it... premade groups are not against our policies.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4422092414#15

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Next up: Blizzard requires access to your phone records and Skype logs before allowing you to queue for BGs to make sure you're playing in the spirit of the experience we want to provide in the normal Battleground queue.

Do these people even think before they react?

[jstanthr]

i admit the rage quit thing was a bit over the top, but was neat, however prepared using oq will bring more harm than good IMO

[Owltoid]

I enjoyed some easy honor rath strat about 6 months ago. I was fun but it wasn't challenging in the least. I also played against rath strat where I was actually on the other team's vent and could hear their strategy. No matter how fast I typed and told the pug I was in where the group was going and how to react we still were demolished.

I find it amazing the peeps here are upset at this change. The change makes total sense and blizz should make a stance against fully coordinated pre meditated pugs. There IS an option for organized pvp, it's just that those in rath strat really aren't that good and they would get demolished against another premade.

The ones crying about the new change are the same ones crying that twinks with exp turned off can't queue with regular players. Basically, it's the ones crying that you took away their iwin button and they may have to play as intended.

[zenga]

I enjoyed some easy honor rath strat about 6 months ago. I was fun but it wasn't challenging in the least. I also played against rath strat where I was actually on the other team's vent and could hear their strategy. No matter how fast I typed and told the pug I was in where the group was going and how to react we still were demolished.

I find it amazing the peeps here are upset at this change. The change makes total sense and blizz should make a stance against fully coordinated pre meditated pugs. There IS an option for organized pvp, it's just that those in rath strat really aren't that good and they would get demolished against another premade.

The ones crying about the new change are the same ones crying that twinks with exp turned off can't queue with regular players. Basically, it's the ones crying that you took away their iwin button and they may have to play as intended.
I completely agree, and the qq that they broke the addon is no different than the qq single players use vs boxers. But there is one thing though: organized casual pvp does not exist, except wargames but they don't allow you to progress you character (i.e. they don't yield an honor reward). Rated bg's is all about maintaining your rating and that prevents people from queuing up with randoms once above a certain rating.

What's missing is a premade random bg queue. Same like the twink queue.

[Owltoid]

I think we're treading on dangerous ground. The more blizz looks at the current system the more they may reevaluate. I could see a system made for solo players and a system that groups together any teams that queued as a party or raid. Even two players that want to play with each other would go into this pug of premades type system. That would also decrease the botting issue. What that would mean is us boxers would always be going up coordinated groups (more accurately a group of oordinated teams, where a 15 man may be full of a 10 man raid, a 2 man party and another random 3 man party) - not that fun when you're trying to grind gear with multiple toons.

The above may sound hypocritical to what I posted earlier. The difference is that multiboxing comes with disadvantages and pugs can still win. I'd be willing to guess that 90% of multiboxers actually hurt their teams chances instead of help. That is a different scenario than fully premade "pugs" that virtually have no chance of losing and no disadvantages.

[Fat Tire]

What's missing is a premade random bg queue. Same like the twink queue.

I could see this as a fix to the issue.

However, if they made this change it could mean unintended consequences for muti boxers who like to join together and farm bots and fresh lvl 90s with the occasional coordinated group opponent. I am willing to bet that the premade vs premade queues may be hot to start but fade into never getting queues. Because as a solo player I am guessing randoms are just easier.

Hell blizzard would be able to kill off muti boxers in random bgs also with this change, its a win win for them.

[Owltoid]

Exactly, Fat Tire. That's why I said we are going down a dangerous path. It would suck if Rath Strat and oQ were the genesis of the downfall of random BGs for multiboxers. If they did make the change to have BGs for groups then all we can hope for is it only applies to raids. If they kill queuing as a party (by forcing any party of 2-5 to play against other organized parties) then I know PvP is dead for me.

[Fat Tire]

If they allowed everyone honor gear at the start of every new season, I think people would still solo/premade randoms for fun/achives without the stress of going up against either premades or full geared opponents just to gear their character enough to start arena/rbgs. Then I dont think people would care as much about oqeue or whatever.

I think it would get rid of the bots immediately.

[Owltoid]

That won't happen with honor gear to start. A big draw to the game is always thinking everything will be golden once X is accomplished. For example, I'll be awesome once I get full honor, or PvP weapons. That keeps people subbing. The longer they can dangle the carrot the more money blizz makes. I know if I had full gear right now and it wasn't working, my subs would be canceled. However, because I don't know what I can accomplish and I'm optimistic it will lead me to playing for at least another month while I grind it out.

[Fat Tire]

That won't happen with honor gear to start. A big draw to the game is always thinking everything will be golden once X is accomplished. For example, I'll be awesome once I get full honor, or PvP weapons. That keeps people subbing. The longer they can dangle the carrot the more money blizz makes. I know if I had full gear right now and it wasn't working, my subs would be canceled. However, because I don't know what I can accomplish and I'm optimistic it will lead me to playing for at least another month while I grind it out.

Fair enough. An alternative would be lowering of the cost of honor gear or greatly increasing the amount of honor gain. There has got to be a happy medium. There are alot of people who dont enjoy randoms and are forced to play to gear up enough to start arena/rbg. Its the main reason I have *otted myself.

[zenga]

Fair enough. An alternative would be lowering of the cost of honor gear or greatly increasing the amount of honor gain. There has got to be a happy medium. There are alot of people who dont enjoy randoms and are forced to play to gear up enough to start arena/rbg. Its the main reason I have *otted myself.

They could make the crafted pvp gear equal to the honor gear. Would fix a lot of crap.

[ebony]

I could see this as a fix to the issue.

However, if they made this change it could mean unintended consequences for muti boxers who like to join together and farm bots and fresh lvl 90s with the occasional coordinated group opponent. I am willing to bet that the premade vs premade queues may be hot to start but fade into never getting queues. Because as a solo player I am guessing randoms are just easier.

Hell blizzard would be able to kill off muti boxers in random bgs also with this change, its a win win for them.

you nailed in on the head and i said this is there plan a few times on this page )from a pvp blog). once they go down this road there is no going back and i can not see many "av" games for us. it be pemades in 10man's thats going to just be as bad as RBG. they might as well go with 5 man RBG's (queing two 5 man groups)


all i know for sure is once they do this whatever they pick. Join as group for any BG will be removed

[MiRai]

I really like this post from another player's perspective:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200052820?page=19#369

[candlebox]

Thats basically how i feel on the topic. I enjoying watching invis and his 15 man group, and other 10 man pvp vids...do you not?

I have warned about boxers "Bullying" people /spit /lol to people they kill. I understand there are bots, but the boxing issue is a huge subject. Judging by his attitude from his "Tolerate boxing" speech, I assume this is a direct attack on boxing. My comment to socialism was the snowball effect. It starts with small things, then they work themselves to a big mess. Next you know IWT will go away "Unlikely" or /follow.

People build of hatred after a while. I don't say anything when im in AV usually, and I have been kicked many times.

Also, Im not crazy with my comment, I have lost abbout 35% of my 401k since 08 and its not gaining. I am probably going to pull out and invest in gold. Probably before the tax breaks are lifted jan 1st..

[Ualaa]

There are a lot of free to play games out there.
Not sure if any of them are good or not.
Because Warcraft has offered a fun environment to play in.

But if they remove the ability to queue as a group entirely, what's the point in the game at all?
Aside from the PvE aspect, which has no interest...

Blizzard will do what they want to do...
But Sony did the same with Everquest, until another option came around, and more than half their player base moved.

[Cptan]

Or you can gather a team in RL, talk to investors, and develop your own game using the affordable and powerful game engine available to jump start. You can now set your own rules.

If possible, create the game with boxer in mind.

Not a trivial task of course, but not impossible.

[zenga]

I really like this post from another player's perspective:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200052820?page=19#369

He uses a lot of bogus logic while putting everything black/white, for example:

'It is, very frankly, disturbing that you're wagging your finger at players for attempting to play battlegrounds the way they were meant to be played - that being in an organized manner. People actually fighting for objectives instead of out scattered on the road with no care in the world about the outcome of the match.'

You can still get organisation going in random BG's, be it through chat or queue up with a 5m group which can account for half of the team in 10m maps. He acts as if no organisation is the only option from now on. He puts everything as the opposite extreme, while the reality is way more in the middle (as if the only alternative to a full premade is people running around like headless chickens).

During the pre-cataclysm patch they removed the ability to queue up as a raid, with a clear intent. Yet a part of the playerbase used a loophole in the queuing to game that change, claiming that what the system allows is within the rules/spirit of the game. Which is total nonsense (a bug is a bug and an exploit is an exploit).


I enjoying watching invis and his 15 man group, and other 10 man pvp vids...do you not?

I personally do not since I find it one of the saddest things in the game. We all know how boxing works on the technical side, and how much one button spam is involved. Compared to the videos from for example krushpack/ellay who plays 4 toons, I see a massive difference in skill required. But enjoying vs not enjoying is by default a very subjective matter.


My comment to socialism was the snowball effect. It starts with small things, then they work themselves to a big mess.
I guess you confuse socialism with dictatorial communism. Truth is that many of the countries where socialism is a part of the system are far less of a mess than those countries who frown upon socialism.

[EaTCarbS]

He uses a lot of bogus logic while putting everything black/white, for example:

'It is, very frankly, disturbing that you're wagging your finger at players for attempting to play battlegrounds the way they were meant to be played - that being in an organized manner. People actually fighting for objectives instead of out scattered on the road with no care in the world about the outcome of the match.'

You can still get organisation going in random BG's, be it through chat or queue up with a 5m group which can account for half of the team in 10m maps. He acts as if no organisation is the only option from now on. He puts everything as the opposite extreme, while the reality is way more in the middle (as if the only alternative to a full premade is people running around like headless chickens).

During the pre-cataclysm patch they removed the ability to queue up as a raid, with a clear intent. Yet a part of the playerbase used a loophole in the queuing to game that change, claiming that what the system allows is within the rules/spirit of the game. Which is total nonsense (a bug is a bug and an exploit is an exploit).

In no part of that post does Xexyz say that a premade is the only way to have organization in pvp.

Thanks for the daily dose of irony.

[MiRai]

He uses a lot of bogus logic while putting everything black/white, for example:

'It is, very frankly, disturbing that you're wagging your finger at players for attempting to play battlegrounds the way they were meant to be played - that being in an organized manner. People actually fighting for objectives instead of out scattered on the road with no care in the world about the outcome of the match.'

You can still get organisation going in random BG's, be it through chat or queue up with a 5m group which can account for half of the team in 10m maps. He acts as if no organisation is the only option from now on. He puts everything as the opposite extreme, while the reality is way more in the middle (as if the only alternative to a full premade is people running around like headless chickens).

During the pre-cataclysm patch they removed the ability to queue up as a raid, with a clear intent. Yet a part of the playerbase used a loophole in the queuing to game that change, claiming that what the system allows is within the rules/spirit of the game. Which is total nonsense (a bug is a bug and an exploit is an exploit).
All I did was link the post because I thought it might be a good read. If you have anything to say to the poster you're more than welcome to grab a US account and post your rebuttal in that particular thread. ;)

[zenga]

In no part of that post does Xexyz say that a premade is the only way to have organization in pvp.

Thanks for the daily dose of irony.

The point was that he compares extremes. e.g in the part that I quoted he says that blizzard is wagging a finger at organisation in random bgs, jumping from no longer being able to queue as a full premade (the topic) to concluding that they don't want organisation in a random bg is plain stupid and short-sighted, And he backs that conclusion up with an image where he links premades (organisation) to fighting for objectives vs fighting on the road. Like I said, the reality is far from the extremes he uses.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I really like this post from another player's perspective:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200052820?page=19#369

Lot of stuff in there I agree with.

Bottom line, though: Blizzard has shown a penchant for "fixing" symptoms that highlight the real flaws in the system rather than spending the honest effort to fix the flaws themselves. Seems like it's been that way since the original dev team moved on, at any rate.

[candlebox]

You can still get organisation going in random BG's, be it through chat or queue up with a 5m group which can account for half of the team in 10m maps. He acts as if no organisation is the only option from now on. He puts everything as the opposite extreme, while the reality is way more in the middle (as if the only alternative to a full premade is people running around like headless chickens).

I am not sure when the last time you went into a BG as a single person, but it is a MESS. EVERYONE does there own thing. People take the wrong GY's, they dont defend, they dont group up or fight on objectives. Pretending that they do is crazy talk. Yes you do have random times when people will actually try, but it is very seldom. People get in a routine of doing things, and that is that.

I solo heal Drek and I am the reason the alliance has won alot of games. I have been in these unorganized crime games, and its just a FFA mess. Any alteration in the normal run to x location, and GG coach.

[zenga]

I am not sure when the last time you went into a BG as a single person, but it is a MESS. EVERYONE does there own thing. People take the wrong GY's, they dont defend, they dont group up or fight on objectives. Pretending that they do is crazy talk. Yes you do have random times when people will actually try, but it is very seldom. People get in a routine of doing things, and that is that.

I solo heal Drek and I am the reason the alliance has won alot of games. I have been in these unorganized crime games, and its just a FFA mess. Any alteration in the normal run to x location, and GG coach.

I don't run any bg's as a boxer, so all bg's I do is solo; and honestly my experience is totally different. Not gonna say that every bg has perfect communication, far from it. But at least every other BG I'm in a team with a certain level of basic coordination. I admit that I can't speak for AV/IoC in mop since I have them blacklisted. With basic coordination I mean that after the first nodes are capped small groups are naturally formed who guard nodes and call out inc on maps like AB/Gilneas, and on WsG/Twin Peaks the attacking team waits for rezzers and communicates where to gather up. Those are in my opinion the basic things that needs to be organized and I see that in most bgs. That is my experience at least, and I have no reason to question yours. It might have to do with my playing times, or my faction. And I guess if you run AV and IoC getting organisation going is nearly impossible. It's one of the reasons I blacklisted them, but the main reason was that I would end up vs full premades every other AV, premades that avoided every objective and were just farming HKs.

My point is not that there is something wrong with premades, my point is that there is a limit to how many people can queue up at the same time (5) for 2 years and people have been circumventing that with an addon to get a fully premade. If blizzard would allow fully premades to queue up (without the need of a dodgy addon) I'd be fine with that, and take part in premades as well. The best random bgs are those were you have a few 2-3 groups in your team vs some in their team. But if you follow the rules by queuing up with max 5 people, and then get overrun by players who gamed the mechanics, then that leaves a bitter taste.

On a sidenote, if blizzard is fine with a 50% premade team in twin peaks and a 33% premade in AB, it would make sense to increase the amount of players that can queue up for AV and IoC to at least 10.