1 Day Suspension from DBG for 3rd Party Software - and IS is all I was using

[Tanl]

Just found both of my accounts banned at noon EDT:
Greetings,


This is a notification from Daybreak Game Company.
We regret to inform you that the account name: XXXX has been suspended for 1 day(s) due to a Community Standards violation. After reviewing our records, one of the characters on this account was found to have committed the following violations:


Using third party software to modify gameplay.

We do not take situations like this lightly and are informing you that future incidences could result in further action against you, up to and including permanent account ban. You may view the full Terms of Service here: https://www.daybreakgames.com/terms-of-service

I've only recently started using ISBoxer, maybe two weeks now. Used the standard-mmo quick config, and set up just a two box character set. Hadn't done anything more than look around at the settings, tweaked the variable keys for the F1, F2 stuff, and used it to basically make it easy to switch screens and broadcast my gate spells! I used no automation at all outside the game's auto attack and tradeskill auto combines. The only things I've had running with this would me Magelo Sync, Origin, Steam, GOG Galaxy, Arc. I haven't used or tried any other app or program for EQ except for UI mods from EQInterface.

So, at this point I'm removing ISBoxer and Inner Space from my system, but hoping for feedback/interest here to figure out why this happened, since I thought it was OK to use ISboxer

[Ughmahedhurtz]

First, DON'T PANIC! (Note the large, friendly letters.)

Second, we get banned not infrequently because noob customer support people read a report by another player and don't bother to find out if the person is multiboxing or not. 99% of those are overturned on appeal because someone with two brain cells to rub together (or no axe to grind) realizes what happened.

Third, does the EQ Terms of Service/EULA say anything about multiboxing?

[MiRai]

According to firescue17 on the ISBoxer forum (http://isboxer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=37756#p37756), he says:


My understanding is all of the progression / event servers are true box servers - 1 account per machine with no software assistance.

Beyond that, I don't know what to say except maybe that DBG should be more clear about their guidelines on all currently launched servers, as well as those launched in the future.

[Tanl]

What gets me is how vague they are about the topic. I barely know how to use ISBoxer, and was only running two accounts, so I don't know what is going on. There was definitely no "bot" activity; I was at the keyboard. And, I only played on one old server, Bertox.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Is there an appeal mechanism through DBG?

[mbox_bob]

Is there an appeal mechanism through DBG?
Yes, but you do it through your account, so you might need a new one ..._O_...

https://help.daybreakgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/217579038-How-do-I-fill-out-a-ban-appeal-

1725

[Tanl]

I'm just shaking my head right now.

Since there have been responses, here is the current state of my contact with DBG regarding this.

Half an hour after receiving the suspension, I used a third acct. I created only a few days before (I was gonna start 3 boxing) to submit a support ticket regarding this matter:

I am hoping to get more information from you regarding my account associated with email address xxxx@xxxx.xxx being suspended for 3rd party software. I have been using ISBoxer/Inner Space, but I thought that application was permissable. I will discontinue use immediately, and remove from my system, if that was the cause of the violation. If you detected something else, can you please let me know so I can make sure it is removed. I wish to remain a loyal customer, so all information you can provide me that caused the suspension.

They then replied with this canned response:

Please Note: this is an automated reply to your question based upon the category that you selected. You must update this ticket (with any requested information) in order for Support to assist you.
Your account has been suspended or banned based on a combination of factors including but not limited to: Cheat detection tools, video evidence, player reports, as well as direct observation.
We do not base our decisions on a single report or piece of evidence, and as such we feel very strongly that the action taken against your account is valid.
Types of processes considered cheating include:
• Running specific programs that modify the game client or game experience.
• Modifying your OS environment in an attempt to falsify data that the game accesses, this is considered malicious behavior will result in the account being banned.

Please keep in mind the following:
· No one is banned for using non-hack programs (like Fraps, overlays, etc.), however software used to modify the game or modify your system or OS environment in an attempt to falsify date that the game accesses will result in a ban.
It doesn't matter if you only cheated once. Cheating is strictly forbidden, don't experiment, or try it even once. Once is all it takes.
· It is your responsibility to ensure that no one else has access to your system or account. We will not release your ban if someone else cheated on your account, or installed something on the system you are playing from without your knowledge. Play on a public PC at your own risk.
· Many cheat programs work in multiple games. When a cheat program is detected that you supposedly used for a different game, it will result in a ban from all Daybreak games.
· No details about your ban (including evidence) will be revealed. Hackers would love to have access to this information and therefore we will not disclose it.

For more information, please view: https://help.daybreakgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/217509308
If you require further assistance not covered here or have chosen the wrong category, update this ticket at your Support History page and an agent will assist you. If we do not hear back from you within 3 days, we will consider the issue resolved and this ticket will automatically close.


To which I responded:

I have read your emailed response - so I have one question I hope you will answer with a simple yes or no:
Is using Lavish Software's Inner Space and ISBoxer configuration to play multiple instances of Everquest on a regular server against the Terms of Service?

Finally, after I left for work last night I received a reply at 12:14am EDT:

Max "Remdag" Oakson (Daybreak Games)
Jul 13, 9:13 PM PDT

The Terms of Service does not differentiate between program or software and server type.

So, I guess that means ISBoxer is against the ToS now. I would have preferred a straight answer, but that's the best interpretation I can make of this matter. My main concern at this point of the matter is this: IF ISBoxer is really OK to use as I was using it, and was not the 3rd party program they detected me using, I need to nuke my OS ASAP and get rid of whatever has infected it. I use paid versions of Bitdefender and MBAM, and both scan clean, so I don't know what to think - that's why I wanted the straight answer about ISBoxer. If ISBoxer is now a violation of their ToS, why is it so hard to come out and say so straight up? If ISBoxer is NOT a violation of their ToS, then either ISBoxer is now triggering false positives in their detection routine, or my computer is infected with an unknown application whose behavior is triggering DBG's hacking detection routines.

Trying to figure out my next move, since I don't want to ignore this situation and get banned in the future.

[mbox_bob]

I'm just shaking my head right now. I'm not surprised.



Max "Remdag" Oakson (Daybreak Games)
Jul 13, 9:13 PM PDT

The Terms of Service does not differentiate between program or software and server type.

Actually it kinda does. This is a statement which contradicts the TOS. I'd find the relevant passage, but I'm being lazy-ish.
e.g. Even their Appeal your ban page I linked earlier states:

No one is banned for using non-hack programs (like Fraps, overlays, etc.), Is this not differentiating programs/software type, and by name?

Now lets clarify a little. ISBoxer is not what I consider a hack program, it is a functional procedural scripted process which runs on the Inner Space platform. Inner Space as a run time platform, like JAVA or Windows, can potentially be used in such a way is that what is running on the platform might be a hack program. Differentiating between something running on a runtime platform being a hack program vs something that is not, is the tricky bit.
So it gets a little grey, in that it depends on what you are using it for. But then if they are going to ban you for using a platform that might be used for hacking, then Windows is out completely (along with every other OS out there), seeing as it provides such functions as ReadProcessMemory, and WriteProcessMemory. Now whether you do use them, vs, they could be used are two different things. Sadly some of these morons don't see it like that, despite the fact that the argument is valid.


So, I guess that means ISBoxer is against the ToS now.Only for some people apparently. Not everyone has been suspended/banned.


I would have preferred a straight answer wouldn't we all, but it has never been a topic any developer/publisher has been willing to really get into straight answers in this area. Some of them do actually publish lists of approved "helper" software, but this is very rare, and despite the fact I cannot remember recent endorsements by others besides CCP (for EVEMon, not ISBoxer), it does happen on the odd occasion.


My main concern at this point of the matter is this: IF ISBoxer is really OK to use as I was using it, and was not the 3rd party program they detected me using, I need to nuke my OS ASAP and get rid of whatever has infected it. I use paid versions of Bitdefender and MBAM, and both scan clean, so I don't know what to think - that's why I wanted the straight answer about ISBoxer. If ISBoxer is now a violation of their ToS, why is it so hard to come out and say so straight up? If ISBoxer is NOT a violation of their ToS, then either ISBoxer is now triggering false positives in their detection routine, or my computer is infected with an unknown application whose behavior is triggering DBG's hacking detection routines. Its more likely it was a player report or a GM observation, otherwise there would be a few more other regulars complaining.


Trying to figure out my next move, since I don't want to ignore this situation and get banned in the future.Wait it out, and either go back to boxing, or don't. Personally, I'd weigh up whether I really wanted to play that particular game, or whether another more liberal one would do. So I'd try again at a later time, and if it re-occurred, I'd move on.

[Tanl]

Sorry if I'm hashing material all of you have dealt with before. I'm done with ISBoxer, but found WinEQ2 (which I thought was for EQ2 specific). I only want window/task switching management like ISBoxer did (with the display configuration) and easy switching between windows. Of course, hard to find info on what WinEQ2 means to DBG, but scared to try it now.

[Lyonheart]

Sorry if I'm hashing material all of you have dealt with before. I'm done with ISBoxer, but found WinEQ2 (which I thought was for EQ2 specific). I only want window/task switching management like ISBoxer did (with the display configuration) and easy switching between windows. Of course, hard to find info on what WinEQ2 means to DBG, but scared to try it now.

Im pretty sure WINEQ is one of Innerspaces softwares..ie same stuff that drives ISboxer..same dude>>Lax!

[Jamkul]

I used to play DBG EQ2 with 6 characters up until around June 2016.

Never had a problem with anyone, no warnings, bans etc, a few of the h8ers here and there but nothing more than ppl just being sadmad for whatever reason.

I was all over the place with my characters, sometimes, I would empty a few spots to help people out if we were in the same place farming etc...

Most of the time I just kept to myself, would open portals for players while I was researching quests and stuff.

If this happened to me, I would request the petition to be escalated to a senior gm. It will have senior gm <name> in the reply. Hopefully that gets resolved so you can play.

[Tanl]

Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply!

I went with a sort-of extreme solution - I picked up another copy of Windows, popped in a 115GB ssd I had laying around (almost have enough parts for another full machine), installed the OS to dual boot with my current machine, then disabled the other drives on the machine. Now EQ is running on a fresh clean Windows installation and has no access to any other drives on the system. Since DBG wouldn't bother telling me anything - only unjustly accuse me - it was do something that radical or tell DBG to bugger off. Still have a sour enough taste in my mouth over this I haven't totally dismissed telling them to take a long walk off a short pier.

I can't imagine it was a player report that initiated this - I had only run two characters around. Since I had no macros setup, there was no simultaneous casting or whatever, just using auto-follow command built into game - one toon following one other. And I can use my laptop and PC to simultaneously cast anyhow - I have two hands with fingers - when I true box. And if a GM was watching me, he was watching me sit in PoK most of the time. So this brings me to my next uncertainty: do they have some way of scanning the files on your hard drive to look for something suspicious? I have a VPN client running in my system tray, but it was never used/connected during any gameplay - would that trigger it? Digging further, I found at some time in the past I had downloaded "Poke" for some other single player game I had been playing - but I haven't run that application in over a year. Or maybe because I have TextPad and Visual Studio installed they thought I was Super Leezard Squad Haxor Elite!

At any rate, I can run two accts on my clean OS main pc now and one on my dusty old laptop (turning off the new char textures brought back memories - a la the butt-scratching trolls!), so I shouldn't run into any more trouble. But by the noodley appendages of the glorious FSM they can let me know more than saying "Your using a cheat program!"

And, after exploring ISBoxer, only the timers might "automate" something enough to be a ToS violation. Otherwise, it only helps manage multiple game clients and their windows. I'd love to try WinEQ2.0 but with DBG's ambiguity I can't take the chance. But it's a cool product I wish I could explore further.

Again, thanks!

P.S. Just realized you can use this with SWTOR - is that fuzzy territory as well? Same situation, I have my acct, and my roomie has his but never plays. Comments/feedback welcome.

[MultiBear]

P.S. Just realized you can use this with SWTOR - is that fuzzy territory as well? Same situation, I have my acct, and my roomie has his but never plays. Comments/feedback welcome.

While I've never played Everquest or SWTOR, and as such I'm not familiar with their policies, there's something generic I'd like to point out to you that I do think you need to be aware of.

I've seen people use this logic before: "My friend/sibling/etc. has this unused account, so I can combine that with my own account to start multiboxing!" However, for many games, account sharing is prohibited - even if multiboxing itself is allowed. In such cases, the moment you start playing other people's accounts, you run the risk of getting banned - not because you're multiboxing, but because you're using an account that does not belong to you. Just because multiboxing is allowed, doesn't mean the other rules and policies don't apply to you, and breaking them can have dire results.

[Tanl]

If they wanted to take it to that extreme stretch . . .
The "other acct" in question does belong to my roommate. Been roommates for 12 years. Both accounts have two credit cards associated with them - each has mine and his, all cards share same billing address. My card is currently used for both accounts Gold status. Been this way for over three years. Roommate is free to play whenever he wants, and he does so. Besides, it would be borderline criminal for them to ban accounts they willingly accepted charges for where all details are available to them at the time of the transaction to know that it was a violation.

*edit* Just realized that EQ has an option under General that says "Accept kick requests" - on hover, "If checked, you will automatically accept any kick requests made by another player logging into your account." so that kills the account sharing ban worry and they changed their client some time ago to allow multiple instances on a single machine natively, so I'm calling this worry officially unfounded for this game.

Anyhow, a bit of a derailment from the focus of this topic - which was receiving a 1 day suspension, which is long over and I'm back to playing again. Again, the suspension was for an alleged "3rd Party application in violation of ToS", no other information ever provided.

[MultiBear]

Anyhow, a bit of a derailment from the focus of this topic

Not really, no. You are the one who brought up potentially using an account for another game that isn't owned by you. I'm only responding to what you yourself posted in your own thread, offering some free advice about how you might risk setting yourself up for another ban. Because the type of bans I mentioned have been known to happen, regardless of what your opinion is on them. People have also lost accounts this way because the original owner claimed ownership once again. But by all means, dismiss good advice when it's given to you.

[Missterious]

The fact that it was one day indicates they aren't sure if you violated anything. In the past, on the forums, they have said ISBoxer was allowed and then during one of the fracases on the TLP servers, they said it was not. Most of us took that to mean, if we're not on TLP, they're not going to hassle us. Personally, I always have 12 accounts loaded but they're not doing anything but foraging or trading.

I think what happened was someone observed your toons moving together and assumed it was MQ2, because they are ignorant of ISB. Personally, I have an issue with ignorance but there's not much you can do.

[Jar]

I have been boxing EQ1 for 12 yrs or so now and NEVER had a suspension or ban due to using ISboxer.. I don't know what server your on but there are alot of us using it with any problems for years now.

[Tanl]

The only thing I'm sure about regarding this whole situation is DBG will not be giving me a straightforward answer.

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

And MultiBear, I do appreciate your warning, and I'm not diving into SWTOR boxing until I investigate further. My previous post mistakenly focused on EverQuest alone without regarding the fact I brought up SWTOR earlier and that was what you were responding to.

Cheers all!

[18Yb295y]

Just started 2 boxing EQ2 early in January and have not had any problems on a traditional server. I have seen people post about multi boxing on the eq2 forums and have not seen them have problems either.

As has been said in previous posts it looks like multi boxing on a special server like Time Locked Progression will get you banned. Boxing on a traditional server seems to be safe for now. The server I am most interested in and may try boxing on is the "Free Trade Isle of Refuge Server". That is a special server but maybe not so special it will get me banned.

[MrBoboToast]

I'm not diving into SWTOR boxing until I investigate further.

I have 3 boxed SWToR with no problems for several months but I will give you this advice if you decide to use ISBoxer.. Make sure (As it is very explicit in the ToS) every action you take is a solid and full keypress... don't action on press and reaction on release..) It Wasn't a problem for me, however, after reviewing my profile and re-reading the ToS i found some of my "Assist/attack" actions were not in concordance with their ToS..

Double binding mapped keys makes life easy in Swtor but I don't recommend it..
I will be going back there soon after my stint with WoW and I will be rebuilding my profile to insure Assist and attacks are separate keystrokes.. which is the way I play wow now..

Side note:: no interact with target in SWToR but they have their own auto interact/auto face function that makes life a bit easier..(so turning in quests are a pain but fighting is fairly easy..
Hope to see you there..

[honge]

Sorry I am new here (first post), I was reading through this post and one thing I noticed that no-one mentioned is that he is running his EQ client through steam. So that gave me the thought that perhaps Steam triggered an automatic flag to DBG about using third party software? But if the majority of you use Steam to boot EQ and <insert third party software> here without issue, then I suppose that should be ok.
Personally I would avoid using third party software on games booted through their client because of their strict policies.