Dev blog on overlays.

[EaTCarbS]

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/overlays-isk-buyer-amnesty-and-account-security/


As we receive questions about overlays and EVE Online every now and then we want to use this opportunity to further clarify our Third Party Policy on the topic (http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/third-party-policies/).

“We do not endorse or condone the use of any third party applications or other software that modifies the client or otherwise confers an unfair benefit to players. We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications or other software that simply enhance player enjoyment in a way that maintains fair gameplay. For instance, the use of programs that provide in-game overlays (Mumble, Teamspeak) is not something we plan to actively police at this time. However, if any third party application or other software is used to gain any unfair advantage, or for purposes beyond its intended use, or if the application or other software violates other parts of the EULA, we may fully enforce our rights to prohibit such use, including player bans. Please use such third party applications or other software at your own risk.”

Let’s go over this paragraph and have a look at the meaning of the important sentences:



We do not endorse or condone the use of any third party applications or other software that modifies the client or otherwise confers an unfair benefit to players.

​​​In short: Do NOT use any tools/applications/modifications which either modify the client in any way OR provide you any kind of unfair benefit/advantage.


We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications or other software that simply enhance player enjoyment in a way that maintains fair gameplay.

AS LONG AS it’s fair to everybody - neither you nor anybody else gets any unfair advantage – we are fine with it.


For instance, the use of programs that provide in-game overlays (Mumble, Teamspeak) is not something we plan to actively police at this time.

This is an example of something we do NOT consider unfair, for now. This also includes other in-game overlays which do NOT grant you any unfair advantage. We do not consider it an unfair advantage if you can see who is currently talking in your voice communication tool via the means of an in-game overlay. We also do NOT consider it unfair if you use other comfort overlays which do not affect how the game is played. This includes overlays for chat and IM applications, the Steam overlay, and Web-Browser overlays for example.


However, if any third party application or other software is used to gain any unfair advantage, or for purposes beyond its intended use, or if the application or other software violates other parts of the EULA, we may fully enforce our rights to prohibit such use, including player bans.

We do consider overlays using elements of a second or multiple other EVE clients to be against the rules. It changes the way the game is played and grants the player unfair advantages over other players. For example, having overviews from other EVE clients as overlays on one EVE client would allow a player to get real time intel from all those other game instances without having to switch to the other windows. Similarly, overlays using elements from a second or multiple other EVE clients to allow the player to activate modules etc. on those other game instances without switching to the other client windows are clearly in violation of our rules.


Please use such third party applications or other software at your own risk.

Please be aware of the fact that we do a lot of data analysis which grants us insight into behavior patterns and allows us to detect anomalies. In a lot of cases we do not need to know what you do on the client side because looking at the behavior in our very detailed event logs on the server side allows us to see if you have/had an unfair advantage over anybody else including the game environment. We don’t know all the tools out there and what they do exactly - and frankly we don’t care. If you get banned, then this is because the results of what you did and how you potentially gained from it manifested in our server-side logs.

[Lax]

Related thread on ISBoxer.com: http://isboxer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7661

[Mosg2]

It is as I said it would be--They're parsing logs looking for anomalous behavior and banning based off that information.

At least they clarified their expectations, even if they're terrible for boxers.

[Pithy]

I'm having a hard time understanding what they mean to clarify with:
"For example, having overviews from other EVE clients as overlays on one EVE client would allow a player to get real time intel from all those other game instances without having to switch to the other windows."

I don't currently overlay any of my clients, but in the past I have used isboxer to tile my clients neatly on a second monitor and use the focus hotkey rather than alt tab to switch between them on my primary monitor. Is this still legal? If not, how is it different than using the official launcher in windowed mode and positioning all on the same monitor. I can still see all of my huds, overviews, modules, etc. The only difference between the two methods I see is an aesthetic preference.

I apologize if this is clear and I'm just not seeing it; I'm running on rather little sleep at the moment.

[EaTCarbS]

its obviously targeted at VidFX setups such as http://i.imgur.com/it4aMsm.png

[thedevilyouknow]

Another small thing, don't believe that just because your vfxs arent on your eve client, that it means you are safe.

No one is safe


No one

E: I wish reddit would chill, it is obviously aimed at isboxers

[EaTCarbS]

the best part about this whole fiasco is that I actually have enough screen real estate to tile my 20 accounts, so CCP has really accomplished nil. You can also set up your UI in a way that you can tile many of them on one screen. I am going to make a screenshot of such to post on reddit/EVE O forums for the laughs. If anything, just don't use passthru on vidfx and we should be fine.

[bugme143]

@Lax I've said it before, and I'll say it again. "I told you so."

There's absolutely no way CCP can distinguish between some dude with VideoFX overlays for X clients and another dude with X clients on X monitors. Yes, they can tell you're using ISBoxer, but it's FPS limiting abilities and it's CPU management makes it perfect for managing multiple clients. Ultimately, they're shooting themselves in the foot.

[mbox_bob]

I'd assume EVE-O Preview, despite being endorsed, is pretty much breaking the rules too. Especially this SS http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1306/pip.png, which is example 4 on this thread. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5282469

[bugme143]

The endorsement of EVE-O Preview came before the latest interpretation of the EULA.

[mbox_bob]

Yep. Scanning to end of the EVE-O-Preview thread shows that the same debate is happening on that one too, and they are asking for clarification as to whether it is still allowed :).

With a game design that encourages multiple accounts, and even multiboxing those accounts, but the powers that be stamping down on it, then the desire to actually play is just going out the window. I guess they only need to make enough money to put food on the table, so once you whittle down your player base to a few die hard souls, then you know what your stable income is going to be and what you can afford.

Maybe they're hoping that Valkyrie will be the next best thing to enslave the masses (those that can shell out the $600 for it anyway), and part them with their hard earned $15 p/m. I'm not sure multiboxing on the Rift will be possible (although it would be cool if it was).

[EaTCarbS]

http://i.imgur.com/G8LGsj7.png

[mbox_bob]

Now you're just taking the piss. Going to get Windows completely banned. It'll become one of those really annoying fullscreen only games that every time you try and ALT+ENTER, it spends ages flickering before going back to fullscreen.

[Tool of Society]

Now you're just taking the piss. Going to get Windows completely banned. It'll become one of those really annoying fullscreen only games that every time you try and ALT+ENTER, it spends ages flickering before going back to fullscreen.

Indeed now just being good at boxing can result in a ban as stated by CCP. Personally I'm done putting time and effort into a game run by people who seem intent on redefining their EULA and rules till they can "legally" ban me.

[thedevilyouknow]

To be fair though i think in a small way we all saw this coming.

Thankfully for me at least Black desert online is coming out in a few days, I'm going to unsub all but 1 account for a while and just wait this out to see where it goes

[Tool of Society]

To be fair though i think in a small way we all saw this coming.

Thankfully for me at least Black desert online is coming out in a few days, I'm going to unsub all but 1 account for a while and just wait this out to see where it goesOh I definitely predicted this back last year when the original EULA "clarification" was made. I'm just surprised it took this long before they brought the hammer down on dxnothing/videofx and apparently even eve-o preview. The current dev blog basically declares that having more then one account can be bannable if they so desire. Since they are going based on the server logs and a very VERY vague definition of what is considered unfair.

[thedevilyouknow]

Well yeah thats exactly the problem isnt it.
If i save 20 seconds using vfx to activate modules, it might be considered unfair.
If i use plh to get intel, might be considered unfair, because i dont have to look up the guys zkill history and check to see if hes a cyno alt, or i might miss something, so i gain an advantage by saving time.

What if, i use a market tool to check prices of jita or somewhere before i fly there, check prices and fly back, how much time do i save doing that?

Im not saying market tools should be banned, but in a way they give just as big of an advantage

[Tool of Society]

Well yeah thats exactly the problem isnt it.
If i save 20 seconds using vfx to activate modules, it might be considered unfair.
If i use plh to get intel, might be considered unfair, because i dont have to look up the guys zkill history and check to see if hes a cyno alt, or i might miss something, so i gain an advantage by saving time.

What if, i use a market tool to check prices of jita or somewhere before i fly there, check prices and fly back, how much time do i save doing that?

Im not saying market tools should be banned, but in a way they give just as big of an advantage
Yeah little things like using PLH with multiple accounts up could be construed as bannable now. It's not worth navigating the minefield of being banned whenever for whatever reason.

[thedevilyouknow]

I don't know whether to bother subbing my accounts later when i have more time or not.

Granted i don't need vfx and was perfectly prepared to not use them, it is the "ban if too efficient" that hits me, they don't need proof with their precious logs

[JohnGabriel]

This has been an uphill battle for you all for quite awhile, yet your boxer ingenuity has triumphed time and time again.

I may never play Eve but if you guys really love this game I know you can come up with something to keep it within their ever changing rules. You can do it!!

[EaTCarbS]

On the plus side it seems a lot of people are rustled by this, because it is so vague that it applies to pretty much any 3rd party utility. The response from CCP will be interesting.

[thedevilyouknow]

Not to be cynical, but that is if we get a response, either way it still won't help us

[bugme143]

CCP response: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6362936#post6362936

Of particular note: "We do not necessarily need to differentiate between different systems. If the logs show activity that should not be possible through normal means, we will take action."

Guess ISBoxer's VideoFX is back on the allowed list!

[EaTCarbS]

perhaps Lax could comment on this, but i'm fairly certain that vidfx click thru bring the game client to the foreground when used (indistinguishable from alt-tab) using features build into windows. No client modification whatsoever.

[Lax]

perhaps Lax could comment on this, but i'm fairly certain that vidfx click thru bring the game client to the foreground when used (indistinguishable from alt-tab) using features build into windows. No client modification whatsoever.


It would put a click in the input stream, ISBoxer does not bring a window to foreground just to send a click; this is also why it can click in more than one window at the same time, as opposed to something like keyclone which would bring each to foreground and click one at a time.


Overlays which contain a full, unchanged, EVE Client instance in a view only mode, no matter how large or small they are scaled, like it is done by EVE-O Preview as of today, are fine with us
The DWM thumbnail API allows partial views, this still sounds silly.

But they are saying that VFX are fine, without click-thru. You can focus the clients with the VFX Focus Hotkey and interact with them, but apparently they don't want interaction as per "view only mode"

[bugme143]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/47pnaw/ccp_grimmi_clarifies_new_overlay_and_thirdparty/d0f3diu?context=3


CCP Falcon just inadvertently agreed that multiple monitors provide an unfair advantage over those without.

[EaTCarbS]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/47pnaw/ccp_grimmi_clarifies_new_overlay_and_thirdparty/d0f3diu?context=3


CCP Falcon just inadvertently agreed that multiple monitors provide an unfair advantage over those without.

ofc its an advantage, I don't think anyone is going to argue against that.

[bugme143]

ofc its an advantage, I don't think anyone is going to argue against that.

key word "unfair".

[Mosg2]

CCP response: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6362936#post6362936

Of particular note: "We do not necessarily need to differentiate between different systems. If the logs show activity that should not be possible through normal means, we will take action."

Guess ISBoxer's VideoFX is back on the allowed list!

[Inigo voice] Mmmm, I don't think that means what you think it means.

I mean, sure, do whatever you want! ...but they'll ban you if you do it faster than they think you should be able to do it.

[bugme143]

[Inigo voice] Mmmm, I don't think that means what you think it means.

I mean, sure, do whatever you want! ...but they'll ban you if you do it faster than they think you should be able to do it.

I'm fairly sure at this point that CCP Falcon/Peligro's idea of "faster than [one] should be able to do it" is very similar to "slower than (drunk) me [Falcon/Peligro]".

[Ughmahedhurtz]

key word "unfair".
Would you agree or disagree it's more efficient to set up a ton of dxNothing views and one main view on a single monitor *even if it reduces the real estate of your main view a bit* than setting things up across multiple monitors?

[bugme143]

Would you agree or disagree it's more efficient to set up a ton of dxNothing views and one main view on a single monitor *even if it reduces the real estate of your main view a bit* than setting things up across multiple monitors?

I would say that the player who spends time meticulously crafting his dxNothing windows would indeed have an advantage over one player over multiple monitors if you were input broadcasting (if only to make sure your stupid guns were cycling) or doing a similar inane activity which required little input, such as mining in highsec with tanked procurors in a 1.0 system (and not caring if they die) or playing DDD for some Vexors.

However, for everything else that requires skills, such as PVP, capital escalations, complex PVE (i.e. non-AFK ratting), or saving your ass when your 18 ratting chimeras gets dropped on (Hi, Gaara!), the player who has more monitors would win, as I outlined in the reddit post.

And of course, they would both have an advantage over 1 player with 1 monitor. But then again, I'd get a advantage if I parked my ass two feet from the London servers compared to someone in the middle of Bumfuck, Nowhere.

[fknra]

it's nice to finally get clarification that using windows management is on the OK list so ToS and O'neal can still have our 50/50 split heals in one screen and dps in windowed on the other

[fknra]

playing eve with 1 monitor is just silly (i played on a laptop for over a year, will NEVER go back)
that said, I doubt you would get caught if you had dxnothing windows set up to show your shields on all your toons and had them set up to switch to the correct window on click. (ie: toon 4 is taking damage click to switch to toon 4 pop cyno, click through 1-8 to jump to toon 4) as you're just using it as a window management tool
I think they're going to crack down on the "perfected" 10 toons with overlays and guns on one screen (no proof, no rumor, just a hunch)

[bugme143]

playing eve with 1 monitor is just silly (i played on a laptop for over a year, will NEVER go back)
that said, I doubt you would get caught if you had dxnothing windows set up to show your shields on all your toons and had them set up to switch to the correct window on click. (ie: toon 4 is taking damage click to switch to toon 4 pop cyno, click through 1-8 to jump to toon 4) as you're just using it as a window management tool
I think they're going to crack down on the "perfected" 10 toons with overlays and guns on one screen (no proof, no rumor, just a hunch)

That's the thing. They can't tell between someone with 1 monitor and overlays switching like you described to cyno and jump, and someone with 8 monitors who does the same thing. CCP Falcon himself (however inadvertently) agreed that multiple monitors constituted an unfair advantage over someone with 1 monitor.

[Krops]

More changes against the playstyle.

Starting to feel like a http://i.imgur.com/DtCk4sa.gifv

(NSFL/W ish)

[iThirdAge Solette]

to be honest this doesnt affect my playstyle at all, i have multiboxed eve in windowed mode since the 1st of january changes, sad to see so many people quitting about these tough

[Mike Lonestarr]

to be honest this doesnt affect my playstyle at all, i have multiboxed eve in windowed mode since the 1st of january changes, sad to see so many people quitting about these tough

I m sure I could get myself to learn your playstyle, but honestly, what I loved about multiboxing was the layouts and finding new ways of optimizing it. Now that it is gone, my interest in EVE is zero.

I m packing my things, unachoring POS'es, selling stuff, consolidating all the tings on one char and exchange my wealth into plex... for the this little tiny hope in me that one day I come back and have fun again.

Wish you guys all the best, fly safe o7

[PhoghornLeghorn]

On the plus side it seems a lot of people are rustled by this, because it is so vague that it applies to pretty much any 3rd party utility. The response from CCP will be interesting.
It's vague enough that anyone using a video overlay for broadcasting live streams also theoretically qualifies as a bannable offense, despite that by very definition no overlay function actually is a modification of ANY part of CCP code due to it being a graphics card related function.

I have a workstation graphics card that is pretty juiced and if i were to do some sort overlay for broadcasting live of the game, that sounds to me like CCP could just arbitrarily ban me.