C5 WH - Ishtar, VNI, Domi, or Tengu?

[K'man]

It's been a number of years that I have partaken in fleet based C5 capital escalations with other players. Yeah, sure you can make on average of 650 mill each site after all the laughs and jokes every 10 minutes but it's still divided up by those that participated. You might end up with just 450-500 mill an hour when the corp/alliance takes their cut. The worst thing about it is that you’re subject to those that log in.

I have decided to break away and multibox C5 sites. I know there is multiple threads that talk about specific things but I would like to get the multiboxing communities opinion on a couple of things and ask for advice so I can burn in a ball of fire knowing I did the right thing from the start.

So, here are some questions:

1. Live in C5 or Nomad C5?
2. With the upcoming mini expansion would it still be viable to live in a C4 with a C5 static to farm?
3. The big question is what ship? Ishtar, VNI, Domi or Tengu. I do know that you could run C5 sites with 5 RR Tengu but you could also do the same with 5 RR Domi but it wasn’t as efficient as some would say because of limitations on speed, damage output and range. There was a thread that discussed people were using Ishtars or VNI. The debate was armor tanked vs. shield tanked. Generally the VNI can have more EHP then the Ishtar but then it is slightly harder to get drone range to 80-90km with the VNI. So in your opinion what would be the most viable ship to use?
4. How many of that ship would be the utmost minimum to use?
5. Mix with Logi or go straight RR.
6. Recommended fittings for these 4 ships?

I know there has been some discussion on these topics already but they have not been very active. Hopefully we can get some experienced players that could clear up some things on these topics.

Also, what does the layout look on isboxer for some of these layouts as there is so many different variations you can find on this site?

-K’man-

[gomeler]

Note: I've lived in a c5 before, my pvp main lives in w-space, but I haven't yet moved my alts into c4 or c5 space yet.

1) If you want to run c5 sites, you need a c5 static. c4-c5 gives you intermittent access to the c4 neighborhood(those c4-c4 chains..) and keeps c5/c6 corps from dropping dreads to evict you(they still might bring a subcap fleet if you look juicy enough). c5-c5 would give you the option to run capital escalations at home once you skill up for that.

2) I don't think the adding of a second static to a c4 is going to affect your ability to farm out the c5 static. Might give you better routes to k-space and might increase traffic a little, but I don't think it is going to change much.

5) I prefer logi/dps at the moment. I decided I wanted to max out my DPS pilots and realistically you only need 3 T2 logi to run the hardest c5 sites. Still not sure if this is the ideal setup, as it is at risk to jams, but a cap-chain RR setup has the same weakness so.. still not sure. One long-term goal that has biased my decision is that this fleet will eventually cross-train into dread/carrier pilots to either sell or run escalations with.

4) With logi/dps in mind, you realistically need 3x logi + as much DPS as you want to bring. Any DPS past the RR capabilities of the sleepers results in faster clear times so max that out to what you are comfortable with. I'm running 5x DPS pilots and 2x logi pilots and making the decision in a week or two to train up another 3x DPS 1x logi pilots.

One thing nobody discusses is scouts + salvage. I run 1 dedicated scout in a cloaky loki(spare character, it works =\) who sits on what I consider the more dangerous hole. Currently my salvage pilot runs in a cormorant and cloaks up off of my return hole when not busy salvaging. I typically won't run a c3 if it has anything more two entrances, unless one of them is a high sec. The loki pilot scoops loot from the salvager every 4 sites and I take a break every 500-700m ISK to drop loot off.

3) I'm in 5x shield buffer VNIs with 2x T1 logi right now. This facerolls c3 sites, it struggles with some c4 sites, and it would get stomped by c5 sites. The weak link is the logi, when one gets primaried in an info sanctum (http://evedb.no-ip.org/?signature=Sleeper%20Information%20Sanctum)for example, I'm limited to 1x logi to rep it and it becomes a DPS race between blapping a sleeper battleship and the osprey going down. This will become a bigger issue in c5 sites when you're facing 2500-3500 dps. Perhaps someone with experience using cruiser hulls in c5 sites can speak up on the troubles they encounter.

6) Here's what I currently use. Tested and works quite nicely in all weather c3s. Only just started using it in c4s(only ran 3 sites so far, don't run across c4 in my chain too often). The DPS immediately drops sentries and starts blapping stuff. Logi pulls range(5km..hah) and orbits the DPS ball. c3 site clears so fast that the logi typically only rep a few cycles per site. logi sig tanks the 1200dps waves pretty easily, seems to only take maybe 600-800 effective dps based off only having to pulse reps.

http://i.imgur.com/pRaOHRA.png


This became quite the novel. To close things off, right now I run with isboxer using two character groups, logi and dps. I mouse/key broadcast restricted to the separate groups and rely on uniform UIs to keep things in check. I'm moving towards fleet broadcasts for DPS targeting and sticking with watchlist + prelock for reps at this moment. I still need to dig into the other isboxer features to see if I can better manipulate all the pilots.

[K'man]

Thanks for kicking things off Gomeler. When I lived in a c3 for 4 years I had 3 alts besides my main which completed the sites. The alts would sit on the wh exits and I would orbit while zoomed in on the wh in order to hear the world sounds when the wh would activate. I would then glance over on my other screen to see who it was and if I was able to see which direction they went. A lot of times they go to the sun so the 3rd alt would be sitting there at 50km in order to get tackle. If they are a little more experienced they will go to some planet and start bouncing around making safe spots. I would then refit my tengu for bait and have my alts cloaked in proteus's within dps range. Just about 500 dps each. If I would to get tackled I uncloak my alts, they panic and they pop faster then they realize what happened. My Tengu pilot was able to complete the c3 sites in approximately 12 minutes each. The ones with the nueting bs I would get within 500m of them so when I am fully capped out I just orbit and kill them while taking no damage.

C3 sites got to easy so I moved into a c4 a couple years back and was running c5 sites from our c4 with a minimum of 5 tengu rr fit or if using any other ship type bringing logi. Now in regards to the RR tengu setup it would be difficult to do multiboxing as you would have to have them locked up in order to transfer shields while having the npc locked up and shooting them. It was very scary at times.

Once I formally moved into a c5 with a c5 static in a different corp we were making close to 80 bill a month casually running sites with the typical 1 loki, 2 archon, 2 moros, 1 booster and 1 noctis. This was prior to having the mobile tractor units. This would be possible to multibox but your putting close to 20 - 25 billion isk on the site in order to clear them in 6 minutes each making 650 mill per site on average. The only issue I would think trying to use isboxer is having to refit the primary moros for cap or gank while maintaining webs from the loki. Especially if the npc are not within range in time.

I have been really stuck on which of the 4 ships I mentioned previously in this thread as I am trying to find that sweet spot. I know more is better for dps and 2-3 logi however, there is that sweet spot where you take into account isk/hr per account. Either paying by PLEX or paying out of pocket. I just don't know how many pilots and in what ships.

I think based on what I have read on other forums and on this site if it is just me and my alts I will shelter in a c4 with a c5 static.

Any more opinions from the community on this topic would be fantastic.

[Alzuule]

Today i finally got t2 sentries on the last 2 of my alts and decided to do the first run of a c5 site multiboxing 1 ishtar 5 VNIs and 2 basis with tengu links using the following fits:

[Ishtar, C5 main]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II


Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron


Drone Link Augmentor II
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]


Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II


Curator II x5
Gecko x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1
Hornet II x5

This is the main pilot which i am tabbed into while running the site ( apart from when i have to tab out to correct something )
The painter is for drone assist, the web is so that my curators can do full dps to those pesky awakened sentinel cruisers who orbit close and have a high tank.

[Vexor Navy Issue, C5 VNI alt]
Internal Force Field Array I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II


Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II


Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor II
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]


Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I


Hammerhead II x5
Hornet II x5
Curator II x5

This is what my other dps characters are flying, curators for 90% of the site and hammerheads to clear frigates, hornets might change to ecm version.

[Basilisk, C5 logi]
Damage Control II
Warded Gravimetric Backup Cluster I


EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II


Large S95a Remote Shield Booster
Large S95a Remote Shield Booster
Large S95a Remote Shield Booster
Large S95a Remote Shield Booster
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II


Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

T2 logi, scimis wont work due to reasons. Works with logi 4 although you need to be careful and cap might break if you are giving full reps while neuted by a wave of neuting BS and cruisers.

[Tengu, Links PVE]
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Warp Core Stabilizer I


Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Command Processor I
[empty med slot]


Siege Warfare Link - Shield Efficiency II
Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers II
Siege Warfare Link - Active Shielding II
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing II
Skirmish Warfare Link - Evasive Maneuvers II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II


Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I


Tengu Defensive - Warfare Processor
Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Tengu Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Tengu Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier

This makes the web of the ishtar go out far enough to reach the awakened sentinels to hammer them down fast. Siege links dont need explanation, the sig link helps alot on tank by reducing the volley of the cruise missiles down to unlinked armortank level.


I just did a Quarintine Area anomaly in my home system, i found only 1 thing wrong with this setup which is that when any of the VNIs or the ishtar is primaried by the neuts then the tank shuts off. Im going to try and fix or atleast reduce that problem by changing one invuln for a deadspace passive thermal hardener.

Site took about 15 minutes from warp in to warp out which i think is ok for a first test run.

Edit: In case anyone is interested ill post a pic of my monitor setup http://imgur.com/Unf2ik9 all fits on 1 monitor although im probably going to add some videofx of my basi's cap since im lacking that atm. With this i can turn on/off all modules on my alts and manage what my logis are repping. Logi targets are locked from a watchlist and logi reps can be controlled at the same time with broadcasting if you activate it while the cursor is on one of the basi videofxs.

[Alzuule]

Now to try and answer your questions

1. live in a c5 definitely, either that or a c4 with c5 and c3( i think thats what they are getting ) static. C5 home would give you access to eventually do cap escalations which is super duper high isk if soloed, c4 would mean easy kspace/highsec entrances and less chance of eviction for being a bear ( doesnt matter if you actually pvp if the right people see a tiny corp they might evict you just for being an easy target )
2. yes and with the possibility of a c3/2/1 second static it will be even better due to easy access to highsec frequently, also if you have a c3 static that can be farmed as well and provide gank opportunities.
3. for 4 ships you need to go tengus or shield RR domi. Tengu would be easiest even though domis would provide more dps, reason is that shield RR domis wont have the control range to not need improved bookmarks which takes extra time in a covops to set up.
4. 3 domis minimum 4 to be safe, tengus probably the same
5. if you have less then 5 people i wouldnt suggest dedicated logi since your dps will be better with spidertank ( and probably still will with 5 )
6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGfkhyFSAQg fit is in description

[K'man]

Alzuule is that 225 mill per hour per account or for the whole bunch? I put together that Domi fit in EFT and that is a very cheap fit. More on the lines with 250 mill per Domi. Means I could have 5 of my alts in Domi running c5 sites. Have you explored if Ishtars would be better than a Domi? I know you just started to play around with them but what would you think in the long run? I though about the possibility of Tengu fleet but its very expensive for lower dps.

I used to run c5 sites with other corp mates but everyone logged off and didn't log back in for almost 9 months. I decided to move on but I would really like to get back into it and perfect the multiboxing aspect of it but nobody I have spoken to even knows what isboxer is. I also thought of the possibility of living in a c3 till my alts are trained to take on c5 sites. I figured I was running each site solo in a tengu every 10 minutes. That was before mobile tractor units.

I was going to ask do you chain the c5 sites and not kill the last trigger so the site respawns the next day?

[Alzuule]

at an hourly rate of about 1b its not close to 225m an hour per account but its better than what you get per account for running incursions ( if you leave out the time logistics and salvaging takes ). The thing ishtars is that they cant really spidertank so you would have to get 2 logi characters for it to work, for 5 characters domis are your best bet. I think that ishtar+VNIs are pretty sweet, if i didnt have my link alt i would have to use all ishtars though since the tank wouldnt be enough on VNIs. Using all ishtars would probably also make the site go a bit faster but vastly increase the cost of the team. Applying dps is easy for cruisers and up all the way out to 75-80km, for frigates i let the VNIs stay on bigger things while i launch geckos on the ishtar and use that to clear the frigates.

Chain running c5 sites only works for capital escalations since as soon as you destroy the first trigger the site will despawn, and just clearing the first wave isnt going to be profitable at all. While i could get better isk/hour from running 9 domis i would also destroy the mass of my static every time i went through it and the ship cost would be doubled so i trade some isk/hour for comfortability and cheapness. This way i dont have to roll after having to go back to my pos for 10 minutes due to something RL happening when ive only done 2 of 20 sites.

[K'man]

Based on the information provided by the community I have learned the following:

Less than 10 accounts with a RR setup go with 5x Domi or5x Tengu. The benefit to the Domi setup is that it is very cheap to fit and you can easily start quicker in regards to not being SP intensive. The downside to the Domi setup is that they are big potatoes, slow, huge signatures and not very agile if you need to leave quickly. The benefit to the Tengu setup is that they can project damage at farther ranges, higher resists and much faster to evade danger. They are also very versatile in regards to refitting to cloak and evade bubbles. The downside is that they are very expensive in comparison,especially for a new multiboxer and not well experienced running C5 sites.

More than 10 accounts go with VNI or Ishtars. Combine them with at least 2 logistics ships T2 are preferred. Ishtars are able to hit at longer ranges and can match the DPS of a Domi or Tengu but are not able to RR each other. Their tank respectively to the VNI is not as squishy shield or armor tanked but cost slightly more than the VNI to fit. VNI are great for establishing the basis of multiboxing 8 VNI and 2 logistics. Any more than 10accounts add more DPS.

Starting in a C3 is a good way to learn the ropes but will become boring and not as good in isk. One account can clear a C3 site every10 minutes only to make 240 mill an average on hour. The downside to this is that once you run out of sites in your home system. Most C3 wh only have statics to known space. C5 to C5 static would be ideal only after you have established and worked out the kinks for your operations. It is more likely if you are a small group that you will be evicted. If you’re a small operation like I am starting out in a C4 with a known space static and a C5 static would be ideal to run operations while not being too concerned about being evicted.This would also pose to be a good place to practice multiboxing PVP as the upcoming changes to C4 WH will allow for more traffic.

My end goal is to be in my own corp or in an established WH Corp/Alliance multiboxing C5 sites in capitals as I have previously done before but only as one entity of the 5 involved. I tried for a long time to get into an established WH Corp but without luck.

I will start out with training 4 more of my alts specifically for Gallente from scratch for the purpose of 5x Domi and will cross train 2 of them eventually into Amarr for Archons and 1 of them for the Loki if that is still viable. However, I have learned that you can run sites quicker by getting bookmarks in the spawn points and using high dps moros while the sleeper BS are moving away from you. As long as you’re fast you can pop them before they get out of range and start their transversal making it more difficult to track them. Each escalation will spawn in the same spot allowing for the same process.

I will eventually need to learn how to setup isboxer.

[LordsServant]

Based on the information provided by the community I have learned the following:

Less than 10 accounts with a RR setup go with 5x Domi or5x Tengu. The benefit to the Domi setup is that it is very cheap to fit and you can easily start quicker in regards to not being SP intensive. The downside to the Domi setup is that they are big potatoes, slow, huge signatures and not very agile if you need to leave quickly. The benefit to the Tengu setup is that they can project damage at farther ranges, higher resists and much faster to evade danger. They are also very versatile in regards to refitting to cloak and evade bubbles. The downside is that they are very expensive in comparison,especially for a new multiboxer and not well experienced running C5 sites.

More than 10 accounts go with VNI or Ishtars. Combine them with at least 2 logistics ships T2 are preferred. Ishtars are able to hit at longer ranges and can match the DPS of a Domi or Tengu but are not able to RR each other. Their tank respectively to the VNI is not as squishy shield or armor tanked but cost slightly more than the VNI to fit. VNI are great for establishing the basis of multiboxing 8 VNI and 2 logistics. Any more than 10accounts add more DPS.

Starting in a C3 is a good way to learn the ropes but will become boring and not as good in isk. One account can clear a C3 site every10 minutes only to make 240 mill an average on hour. The downside to this is that once you run out of sites in your home system. Most C3 wh only have statics to known space. C5 to C5 static would be ideal only after you have established and worked out the kinks for your operations. It is more likely if you are a small group that you will be evicted. If you’re a small operation like I am starting out in a C4 with a known space static and a C5 static would be ideal to run operations while not being too concerned about being evicted.This would also pose to be a good place to practice multiboxing PVP as the upcoming changes to C4 WH will allow for more traffic.

My end goal is to be in my own corp or in an established WH Corp/Alliance multiboxing C5 sites in capitals as I have previously done before but only as one entity of the 5 involved. I tried for a long time to get into an established WH Corp but without luck.

I will start out with training 4 more of my alts specifically for Gallente from scratch for the purpose of 5x Domi and will cross train 2 of them eventually into Amarr for Archons and 1 of them for the Loki if that is still viable. However, I have learned that you can run sites quicker by getting bookmarks in the spawn points and using high dps moros while the sleeper BS are moving away from you. As long as you’re fast you can pop them before they get out of range and start their transversal making it more difficult to track them. Each escalation will spawn in the same spot allowing for the same process.

I will eventually need to learn how to setup isboxer.

Kinda sorta not quite.

You got most of it tho.

I'll shoot you a convo or w/e later, or talk to you if you're on comms - I'm fairly certain you're in one of the corps I've got characters in. :)

I'm happy to explain how wspace works etc etc - the other multiboxers here who are in wspace (at least those I know of) all originally learned the basics etc etc from me. :P

[K'man]

I know who you are Lord's Servant. You were in the same corp as one of my alts back in 2009. Hit me up in game and we can chat.

[gomeler]

Spent an hour or so checking out youtube multiboxing videos to snag some ideas on reconfiguring my UI using videofx/clickbars and I ran across a video Mosg2 uploaded. While it is a larger scale operation than I'm considering or what this discussion has circled around, the UI configuration is one of the better ones for PvE. Pretty compact UI, great use of broadcasting, and a clear explanation of what's going on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peBPbR-sPck

[Alzuule]

thats one hell of a setup, i imagine it probably took ages to plan and set up. Probably going to take a good bit of inspiration from that one too.

[K'man]

That was the next thing I was going to ask was good resources for "how to setup isboxer" and good layouts to work with. I have watched that video several times and thought it was a good setup considering it looks like its a single screen with 20 accounts.

I have also watched this and thought it would be good for PVE or PVP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIcGoSAQPeM

The only issue with this one is that it uses 2 screens for the setup. I have been drawing things out on paper to consolidate everything to one screen while maximizing my screen space that I have on one screen.

I would take the two ideas from both the video gomeler posted and the one above and try to perfect it with minimal clutter.

Eventually, I want to have two setups. One for multiboxing capitals in a c5 probably consisting of 5 accounts and then later I want to take my investments and multiboxing PVP. I don't mean just bomber runs like other boxers do but actual PVP with 10 to 20 accounts running. I would probably use my WH with null exits to create chaos and get them to come back to my wh or fight in a belt. I think it would be fun.

[Alzuule]

Ive multiboxed 7 oracles/talwars so far and it works pretty well once you get a hang of it. However you need someone to tackle for you and you shouldnt be doing logi at the same time as dps, if you do more then 1 job at once outside easy ganks then your reaction and hiccups will get you killed. 1 guy multiboxing a bunch of dps ships ( if brawling then something tanky like prophecys, if kiting then something that can sit really far away like oracles/nados/cerbs/ishtars ) works pretty well with a few more guys doing tackling and logi. The fact that one guy controls all the dps ships ( hopefully ) means that the dps isnt split and is applied at about the same time. Try putting your alts in talwars/tristans/thrashers and go pvp in FW/null area to get a hang of moving about all your alts, pvp is quite different compared to pve. One thing thats screwed me over once was when i was broadcasting a target for my oracles and didnt realise that i had double clicked and made my main pilot and therefore all of my oracles fly straight towards a bunch of battleships with triage archon and loki support so having someone to broadcast for you can help reduce stress.

[K'man]

I got used to pvping with 5 proteus in WH space but was able to select my targets because of being cloaked. I would select one target per alt and manually uncloak, target and hit the hot keys for scram and guns so once targeted I let it do it's thing. Normally I use fleet warp to get away but did everything else manually. Also all of my fits were buffer tanked to the max and only needed to hit two keys with nothing else to activate. There was one time I was fighting on a WH and even after being neuted and capped out they stopped shooting and left because 25 light drones was enough to annoy them even after I popped a tengu on their exit.

I thought if I could do something similar utilizing isboxer it would be easier even if I could just see everything on one screen rather than switching. I used broadcasting and used the watch list to see how my alts are doing. I'd use K'man as my scout because it costs to much to replace the pod to carelessly pvp. I hope ccp will lower the costs of clone upgrade. Clone grade Chi.

[moog]

Spent an hour or so checking out youtube multiboxing videos to snag some ideas on reconfiguring my UI using videofx/clickbars and I ran across a video Mosg2 uploaded. While it is a larger scale operation than I'm considering or what this discussion has circled around, the UI configuration is one of the better ones for PvE. Pretty compact UI, great use of broadcasting, and a clear explanation of what's going on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peBPbR-sPck

That is a great UI and has inspired me to improve my own :)

There's one part I don't understand and could do with a pointer... when ship X needs armor reps, he appears to just click on the videofeed of that ship's shield/armour display and it sends a fleet "need armor" broadcast which the logi can then use to target and rep.

How is the act of clicking on the VFX generating a fleet broadcast - i know you can set an Eve shortcut for 'need armor' so I presume it's generating that key but I don't know how.

Update... I've just watched it again and he actually exlpains it just after 2m in... invisible clickbars... so time to look into that!

[Mosg2]

I'm sorry it's taken me this long to post here. I work shift hours and my work days are about 17 hours all-in, and my days off are... preciousssss... to me.

On the meta-level, I think that you should really sit down and consider why you want to box WH sites in the first place. If it's ISK/hour, then Incursions are better because the risk is orders of magnitude smaller than the risk in running WH sites. I mean, astronomically smaller. If you imagined a fairytale land where you can make good ISK/hour and engage in a lot of pvp... WH space is not that. It's mostly scanning down new chains and trying to find 'content'. Especially with the recent changes to WH spawn-distance mechanics, I foresee even less activity in WH space--IE, less content. Eve is a game that rewards smart and cautious play. If people are not doing stupid things (see the list below), then it's very hard to find people doing... anything really.

Now, if none of that matters to you and you just want to hear what the most efficient setups are for running non-escalated C5 WH sites, then read on.

There are two main fleet setups that work well multiboxed running these sites: A spider-tanking fleet of similar-sized hulls that orbits around your anchor ship (5+ ships minimum), or a mixed-hull fleet with 2+ logistics ships. After playing extensively with both, I far prefer the separate logistics ships for a number of reasons. In case you're dead-set on running a RR spider-tanking fleet, I'll tackle that one first.

Spider tanked T3s are a decent option. I have run C5 sites with RR Stratios, RR Proteus, and RR Ishtars. Tengus and Legions would also work just as well from a RR perspective, less so from an applied DPS perspective. The largest problem with running a ball of RR T3s is that your repair range is only 6km. All of your ships should have afterburners. Unfortunately, almost every wave of every C5 site has webbing ships. This means that you will be limited to the maximum speed of whoever the primary target is. On a normal wave of webbers this means 100m/s max, with an afterburner running. If you're using a weapon system that puts you optimally at 40km or less, there will be waves in sites where you spend 5+ minutes chasing the sleepers as they kite you. This murders your ISK/hour, and also adds a great deal of risk; if you don't notice that the guy getting primaried is out of RR range, you're in for some hurtin'.

Furthermore, you might imagine that an RR fleet optimally uses each slot of each ship, but in practice you waste slots for cap stability when under neuting pressure. Also, you may not have a spare high slot for a RR module without giving up a weapon's slot.

There are other good reasons to not use a RR fleet, but I'll leave it here. If the above didn't convince you, you're unable to be convinced :)

Separate logistics is a good setup. I've run setups where each of my DPS ships feeds cap to my logistics (as per my video), and I now run T2 logistics who feed cap to each other. The problem with each of your DPS ships feeding cap to your logistics pilots is the exact same as the RR T3 ball problems we discussed above--You're limited in mobility, you lose out on some potential mid or low slots for cap stability etc. So, after all the experimentation, two T2 logistics (Basilisk or Guardian, do not try and run the Oneiros or Scimitar for the love of Horus) is the way to go.

Nestors, especially now that they have only 20m mass, are comparable to T2 logistics and take a fraction of the time to train into. However, they will quadruple the amount of ISK you're risking on grid. If you're ok with that, then run'em--They're the best in terms of reps applied, cap stability, tank, AND added DPS (125mb drone bw means 500 dps apiece with zero Drone Damage Amps--Thanks Gecko!). After being violently cap escalated against my will, I decided to swap to the more ISK efficient T2 logistics :)

So after all that, what DPS ships to run?

I like drone boats.

No, I love drone boats.

Drones do not reload ammo, therefore they do not shut off their weapon cycle after reloading. Drones require much less maintenance than guns/missiles, as you do not need to swap between ammo types to modify your range. They do add time to site-running either because of travel time to target (Combat drones), or because you have to collect them post-site (Sentries). From a multiboxing perspective, the tradeoff is definitely in favor of drones over guns/missiles.

So once you decide on drones, which hull?

Well, Ishtars are awesome. Even post-nerf, Ishtars are awesome. That having been said... Ishtars do have a paper-tissue tank compared to a Proteus. If you run Shield Ishtars with Basilisks, you get the third Drone Damage Amp in your lows vice only two if you run Armor Ishtars with Guardians. Then though, you don't have any extra mid slots for Omnidirectional Tracking Links or Drone Navigation Computers. So, Shield Ishtars on paper do more damage than any other drone boat (I don't want to include the Eos as it's a 6 month train for ship+weapons), but you're talking about a 40-50k EHP max pre-links/boosts.

That's a good amount of tank, but it will only survive two volleys from the most-damaging sleeper waves; the third will asplode your ship. That means you have about 10 seconds to lock your target and get reps cycled or you will lose a ship. Now, 10 seconds is a lot if you're paying attention. What happens if you spill your coffee? Or your kid runs up to your desk and nudges your chair, showing you her new thingajigger? Even if you only lose 3-4 seconds, you're seriously limiting your reaction time. Ultimately, using a non-T3/command ship hull for C5 sites is *risky*. Even if you only lose one ship per 20 sites (generous), the amount of ISK you lose pales in comparison to the amount of time you lose, logistically, in replacing it.

So yeah, Drone Proteus are a thing. Droneus. Yeah, I love'em.

[Proteus, Test]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Corpum A-Type Energized Explosive Membrane
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Phased Muon ECCM Caster I
'Umbra' White Noise ECM

250mm Railgun II, Spike M
250mm Railgun II, Spike M
250mm Railgun II, Spike M
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
[empty high slot]

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

Proteus Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating
Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Proteus Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors

Gecko x2

150k tank, 670 DPS with my skills. Controlling the railguns is an afterthought--They only add ~100 DPS, but 14 of them do volley frigates. That halves my clear time of frigate-only or frigate-heavy waves.

I intend to do another video, tonight if at all possible, of my most-recent setup. This will include me breaking down my Innerspace GUI.

Well, I'm exhausted. I'll continue to answer questions as best I can though :)

[LordsServant]

...

Biggest question for me is, what is the sekrit of clickboxing?

Or w/e it is when you can just click a vidfx and have it broadcast for shield/armor.

I'd like to know how to do that. ;)

I've been advocating drone proteii for my alliance for pvp for ages, but noone wants to take em seriously. :P

[Mosg2]

Ask, and ye shall receive :) My video is being encoded as I type this, and should only take a few minutes to upload to youtube since Korea has ridiculously awesome internet speed.

It will take me a few days to type up timestamps and topics, but it should be done at some point.

[Crayonbox]

...

I wonder... Same lordsservant that did the phoenix subcap dunking vids?

[LordsServant]

I wonder... Same lordsservant that did the phoenix subcap dunking vids?



Hello ;)

[LordsServant]

Looking at the drone proteus idea, I got to thinking what would be cheaper or w/e, but still outtank the ishtar.

More Tank, Slightly Less Dps:

[Prophecy, cheapFleet]
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Corpii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Corpii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II


[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]


Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II


Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II


Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1
Gecko x1

Mids can be w/e u want.

[Myrmidon, wspace]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Internal Force Field Array I
Corpii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating


Drone Navigation Computer I
Drone Navigation Computer I
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
Medium Micro Jump Drive


Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]


Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II


Gecko x1
Gecko x1
Ogre II x4

less tank, more dps. I fleshed the mids out for speed/application.

Considering their relative cheapness you could roll faction DDAs on them and still be cheaper than proteus, depending. ;)

Alternatively, for t3s....

[Tengu, wspace]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System


Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
EM Ward Amplifier II
EM Ward Amplifier II
Explosive Deflection Amplifier II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
EM Ward Amplifier II


Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile


Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II


Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers




124k ehp before bonuses or w/e, fully passive.

You can strip the rigs for application and still pack 75k ehp before bonuses.

597 dps w/fury, about 500 with faction.

No implants or w/e...which is a possibility unlike with drones where u dont have implants to buff ur dps etc etc.

Problem with missiles is ensuring all chars have same skills, as u dont want misaligned reload times.

Just a few thoughts I had this morning...

[K'man]

Wow this is all really great feedback.

I wish that I kept some of my alts that I got rid off. I sold off 22 of my alts thinking I was gonna take a break as for about a year I had 22 alts and nothing to do and sporadic playtime because of RL stuff I thought I was going to take a small break. But now I am down to just my main K'man and my 4 new alts I just created over the weekend.

I am highly interested in re-creating my monthly flow of isk while I determine what I can do to wreck havoc on those I deem interesting enough to mess with. I liked the 4 domi setup in c5 wh so that is what I am training my 4 alts to do right as I type this. I will be setting up 8 alts for PI in a another lower class wh for some decent but not so great income.

Mosg2 can you post in this thread your latest video you were speaking of?

I also mentioned a couple of times that if any of you got room in your corp and may be willing I can move my small team over so I can learn the ropes of multiboxing and using isboxer. Keep in mind that my 4 alts are only a couple days old so it'll take a few months till I can actually do anything.

[Crayonbox]

The video he most recently uploaded is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jjridfGJMM

[TheHamburglar]

I updated the sticky with the videos, Let me know if i'm missing any by anyone else that might be helpful

[Mosg2]

Well, depending on how much startup cash you have and what skills your main has... You can fly a decent Navy Apocalypse in a week, and 10 of those plus 1 logi will wreck incursions. It's not 2 bil pimped Nightmares, but it's still pretty good :)

[K'man]

Well, my main pilot has 207 mill sp as of today. Pretty well rounded. As I am writing this I only have 4 alts not even 3 days old. I highly considered running incursions as I watched a couple videos of them being multiboxed but I could never figure out the fitting on the navy apoc or the ships that were used.

Thank you for the feedback as it has been very useful and this thread probably answers a lot of peoples questions especially mine. The videos are a bonus and are very helpful.

[K'man]

Mosg2, I just finished watching your latest video and realized you numbered your alts with 001, 002, etc. Is that important when making sure they are in order? In regards to running incursions does that fleet require a booster? What kind of fitting would you suggest running with the Navy Apoc? Guardians for logistics? 4/2 setup?

[Mosg2]

If I were going to run 10 man Incursions, I would run 10 Navy Apocs, an off-grid booster, and 1 Scimitar. You can buy an off-grid booster relatively cheap, same with a Scimitar pilot if you don't have one. Then I'd train them into Nightmares. Running a Nestor and going with armor instead of shields is also an alternative.

No, having my characters with numbers at the end of their names was a conceit to being OCD, not for gaming purposes :)

[Crayonbox]

I never bothered with incursions, is it really that good for isk / hour? i know everyone does it because it is, but competing against those incursion groups just sounds like a pita

[K'man]

With the possibility of future restraints on incursions I thought of 10 x Legions, 2 x Guardians and 1 off grid booster. The fittings are as followed.


[Guardian incursion, Guardian]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Imperial Navy Armor Thermic Hardener
Imperial Navy Armor EM Hardener
Centii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Centii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating


Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script


Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter


Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II




[Legion incursion, Legion]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Armor Thermic Hardener II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I


Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script


Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M


Medium Energy Locus Coordinator II
Medium Energy Locus Coordinator II
Medium Anti-EM Pump II


Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers
Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Legion Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating


I would swap scorch for navy multi since thy are in range. I also considered removing 1 web and adding another utility mod target painter, damp etc.


what do you think?

[Jacobsalt]

With the possibility of future restraints on incursions I thought of 10 x Legions, 2 x Guardians and 1 off grid booster. The fittings are as followed.


[Guardian incursion, Guardian]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Imperial Navy Armor Thermic Hardener
Imperial Navy Armor EM Hardener
Centii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Centii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating


Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script


Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter


Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II




[Legion incursion, Legion]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Armor Thermic Hardener II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I


Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script


Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M


Medium Energy Locus Coordinator II
Medium Energy Locus Coordinator II
Medium Anti-EM Pump II


Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers
Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Legion Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating


I would swap scorch for navy multi since thy are in range. I also considered removing 1 web and adding another utility mod target painter, damp etc.


what do you think?

Speaking as someone who does solo vgs (and rarely assaults), don't waste your isk and skill queue time on t3s; they are too intensive on fitting reqs in general and usually have to motor out to the spawns. Depending on where you run, and how well skilled your characters are you can either rock a full fleet of tach nightmares plus 1 6/0 basi (if you have good dmg skills), or you can roll with 2 vindicators, 8 nms and 1 logi. Keep in mind that influence heavily influences your need or lack thereof for a second logi.

Shield is generally better for multiboxing in this case as you will get to the point where your limiting factor is both speed in warp and how quickly you can alpha everything in vgs at the spawn. The vindicator is a must if you are running into nco walls, due to the incredibly close spawn range (approx 35km) when compared to the 60-85 km spawns in the other two sites. Additionally, if you are in hisec, you need to be able to volley and not need to move off the warp in in order to get enough armor shots to out compete other fleets.

A competent multiboxer with decent character skills will almost always beat players in a contest unless he miss times armor shots or is lax on drones. Drone management can make or break a contest but is secondary to timing your vollies. I personally put my nm guns in groups of 2 and roll them through the target list simply because i know how much volley i get as a group.

When you multibox incursions, and assuming you are not in a contest, your target priority changes drastically. Instead of nuking the larger targets while you wait for the frigs to be webbed, generally speaking you kill off the quickest spawns (nation commander, tama, schmael, etc) before pot shotting the rest. In general, nothing in a nmc or ota should be able to get within 20km with decent skills, if you find that you have stuff escaping the alpha of your guns you will want at least 1 if not 2 vindies just to be certain your site times don't suffer.

As far as ammo is concerned: Navy gamma, MF are the du jour. You really do not need any other ammo types unless your skills are absolute crap. The t2 ammo is great but burns out too quickly to be worth much in the long run.

[K'man]

I was really looking for a cheaper alternative as that's a very expensive setup to multibox incursions for the first time. I'm sure later on when I have the isk skills trained up I'll probably have that kind of setup but right now I don't have that kind of isk for investment to lose it all in my first attempt.

Suggestions?

[Jacobsalt]

I was really looking for a cheaper alternative as that's a very expensive setup to multibox incursions for the first time. I'm sure later on when I have the isk skills trained up I'll probably have that kind of setup but right now I don't have that kind of isk for investment to lose it all in my first attempt.

Suggestions?

Navy apocs, if low skilled use megapulse xray will hit to the far spawns and you can use mf for the close in stuff. tracking comps etc etc. armor tanked or shield work but armor on the napocs is generally better. thats how i started then crossed to shield for the nms

[K'man]

So, now that I have sat on this for a couple of weeks I wish I didn't sell off all of my 22 alts with the intentions that I was going take a small break. That also means I let my 22 accounts run out of subscription time.

Currently, right now I have one main character that has 207 million SP and 4 brand new alts just 2 weeks old. I had to look at RL money and see what I could afford and 5 accounts is all I can afford to run at this present time. In-game cash flow is a little slim as I helped out a few folks with some investments.

If you only had 5 accounts to multibox would you still go the route of working up towards 5 RR domis in a c4 with a c5 static? With the intentions of getting them setup to fly capitals for escalations?

I considered the incursions but that is a bit of a steep price for me to setup in regards to RL money to train alts. I would really like to keep it at a minimum of 5 accounts for right now. I am a little broke.

My thought on this was to go live in a c3 wh for now till my alts are able to actually fly something useful. I would then train up the extra two slots on each of the 4 alts accounts for PI. I have plenty of Barren and Lava planets that I can get a Robotics factory running on each of the 8 characters which would bring in roughly 12 mill isk a day, 360 mill a month on a 23.75 hour cycle on each account. Monthly total would be 2.8 billion isk a month from PI. My main can run all of the sites in the c3 solo in a tengu taking roughly 10 minutes per site using my alts as eyes on the existing wh exits. A normal month would make me about 1.5 bill isk a month from blue loot and salvage.

Does this sound like a good plan or from experience what would you recommend as a better idea?

My end goal is to not reply on just making isk to just be space rich but eventually supply additional alts that I can PVP with not have to be concerned if I can afford major losses that I cannot resupply.

[gomeler]

So, now that I have sat on this for a couple of weeks I wish I didn't sell off all of my 22 alts with the intentions that I was going take a small break. That also means I let my 22 accounts run out of subscription time.

Currently, right now I have one main character that has 207 million SP and 4 brand new alts just 2 weeks old. I had to look at RL money and see what I could afford and 5 accounts is all I can afford to run at this present time. In-game cash flow is a little slim as I helped out a few folks with some investments.

If you only had 5 accounts to multibox would you still go the route of working up towards 5 RR domis in a c4 with a c5 static? With the intentions of getting them setup to fly capitals for escalations?

I considered the incursions but that is a bit of a steep price for me to setup in regards to RL money to train alts. I would really like to keep it at a minimum of 5 accounts for right now. I am a little broke.

My thought on this was to go live in a c3 wh for now till my alts are able to actually fly something useful. I would then train up the extra two slots on each of the 4 alts accounts for PI. I have plenty of Barren and Lava planets that I can get a Robotics factory running on each of the 8 characters which would bring in roughly 12 mill isk a day, 360 mill a month on a 23.75 hour cycle on each account. Monthly total would be 2.8 billion isk a month from PI. My main can run all of the sites in the c3 solo in a tengu taking roughly 10 minutes per site using my alts as eyes on the existing wh exits. A normal month would make me about 1.5 bill isk a month from blue loot and salvage.

Does this sound like a good plan or from experience what would you recommend as a better idea?

My end goal is to not reply on just making isk to just be space rich but eventually supply additional alts that I can PVP with not have to be concerned if I can afford major losses that I cannot resupply.

If your main can currently fly a capital well, you might consider putting him into a PvP/PvE corp that runs escalations. That should provide some ISK to pay for the main subscription and trickle down some ISK to subsidize your alts.

Another option would be joining an existing corp in a c2-c3/x or c4-c3/c5. C3 space has been a great place to get started, but I'm quickly outgrowing it although I have 7 pilots instead of 5. Joining the existing corp would bolster your fleet running numbers, make rolling holes simpler/safer, and won't have much of a downside(besides actually getting in). Setup your own tower and go to work.

I haven't multiboxed PI yet, but singleboxing it was such a pain in the ass that I didn't bother. Maybe one day I'll try it with isboxer.

I have the same goal(capital escalations) and it looks to me like it'll be another ~6 months before all my guys are sufficiently skilled that I would consider it. So.. keep that in mind. It might be faster to use the sub-cap pilots to grind ISK to buy cap pilots. All depends on how frequently you can play, and your tolerance of grinding billions of ISK.

[K'man]

If your main can currently fly a capital well, you might consider putting him into a PvP/PvE corp that runs escalations. That should provide some ISK to pay for the main subscription and trickle down some ISK to subsidize your alts.

Another option would be joining an existing corp in a c2-c3/x or c4-c3/c5. C3 space has been a great place to get started, but I'm quickly outgrowing it although I have 7 pilots instead of 5. Joining the existing corp would bolster your fleet running numbers, make rolling holes simpler/safer, and won't have much of a downside(besides actually getting in). Setup your own tower and go to work.

I haven't multiboxed PI yet, but singleboxing it was such a pain in the ass that I didn't bother. Maybe one day I'll try it with isboxer.

I have the same goal(capital escalations) and it looks to me like it'll be another ~6 months before all my guys are sufficiently skilled that I would consider it. So.. keep that in mind. It might be faster to use the sub-cap pilots to grind ISK to buy cap pilots. All depends on how frequently you can play, and your tolerance of grinding billions of ISK.

I have tried joining previous corp/alliances in WH space but they are not active in my TZ. That is one of the reasons I want to multibox in order to not rely on others to do what I want to in the game. My main focus is to supply enough isk for PVP losses as I do want to attempt to multibox PVP but also make enough to not worry about losses.

I would never suggest multiboxing PI as I don't think that would be possible as each planet would be different. I would still need to do that individually which if I took even 5 minutes per pilot each night it would still take me close to an hour a day. But that still equates to almost 100 mill an hour which is comparable to missions and incursions per hour. The benefit to it is that you control your outcome with very little variations (market prices). I wouldn't consider this to be a passive income despite to make any significant amount of isk takes time for the best placement and monitoring.

[LordsServant]

Eh, PI is annoying as fuck for me personally tbh.

Haven't really done it.

That said, for all the folks discussing various setups - this is one thing I theorycrafted back when they were first changed.

The original idea was for PVP in lower class WHs, but it should work even better for PVE here for our purposes.

[Paladin, triage pve]
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Corpii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Corpii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II


Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II


Bastion Module I
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II


Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II


The miniature triage archon.

For our purposes as multiboxers, the lack of range is no worry.

Rather than dualboxing nestors or w/e, just run a single one of these.

Reps a ton, both local and remote.

Pair it up with your ranged/projected dps of choice.

It's incredibly difficult/impossible to find a shield variant of this.

Golem has huge capacitor/cpu issues, and while paladin has cpu issues, I think it's probably the best option.

Funnily enough, if you really demand maximum performance out of the triage paladin, much like the triage archon, you end up with a superior result when local shield tanking.

[Paladin, triage pve shield local]
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay


Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field


Bastion Module I
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II


Large Core Defense Operational Solidifier II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II


Outtanks by a fair margin, has higher cap regen, and a vastly superior burst tank with heat. Changing up the shield booster greatly enhances this.

For maximum effect, assuming the same fitting level as a dread:

[Paladin, triage pve shield local insanity]
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay


Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pith A-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field


Bastion Module I
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer


Large Core Defense Operational Solidifier II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II


Cap stable with all local tank heated with only 2 RR turned off.

Add in Strong Blue Pill + Mid Grade Crystal set + shield links and what do you get?

14,583 dps local tank.

Your RR is also entirely impervious to all ewar, and ofc, highly neut resistant thanks to your solid recharge level.

Bring Strong Mindflood for extra cap if tank is not an issue, and your regen jumps to +439, which is only 100 short of the cap regen off of a REAL armor triage carrier.

It's p. kickass. ;)

[Crayonbox]

been on reddit too much. tried to +1 this heh. but +1 the triage paladin

[Mokoi]

Actually, I had been looking at the Triage Paladin for months until I moved across the world recently. One of the nice things about the shield variant, is that you dont even need more than Marauders I to get the full benefit. If you run local armor, you of course would benefit from Marauders V but thats a very long train.

I even have 2 characters very close to Marauders for this purpose. If I get enough time to come back, that's my farm.

[LordsServant]

Here's my thoughts...

[Paladin, PVE triage shield RR]
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Corpii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Corpii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay


Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II


Large S95a Remote Shield Booster
Large S95a Remote Shield Booster
Large S95a Remote Shield Booster
Gistum A-Type Medium Remote Shield Booster
Bastion Module I
Gistum A-Type Medium Remote Shield Booster
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]


Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II


The above for triage.

Reps pretty solid, has tons of extra capacitor, meaning I can run local tank perma and not have to micro at all ever!

Why shield mini-triage instead of the superior armor mini-triage?

[Gila, BOXER_ULTIMATE]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Internal Force Field Array I


Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Pithum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Pithum C-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Large Shield Extender II
Sentient Drone Navigation Computer


Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]


Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II


Hammerhead II x2
Valkyrie II x2

This would be my primary boxed dps.

Possibly swap out the 3rd LSE for an invuln field, but I am concerned about neuting turning things off.

Each of these clocks in at just over 103k ehp, dealing 635 dps with Hammerheads.

Hammers move at 3300 or so, while valkyies clock in at just under 5,000.

Mediums track fairly well ofc, and are very cheap to replace compared to geckos. They are also easier to max out in terms of dps skills for lower SP chars.

To top this all off, you have the triggership + links.

[Eos, shield buff]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Signal Amplifier II
Signal Amplifier II


Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Pith C-Type EM Ward Field
Republic Fleet Target Painter


Siege Warfare Link - Active Shielding II
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Efficiency II
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing II
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]


Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II


Gecko x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1

Packs an additional 824 dps.

You drone assist to the Eos, which target paints the targets to trigger the assist.

Also, those drone limits?

One can only have 50 assisted drones at one time.

Gilas don't use 5 drones like most ships - they use 2.

This means that you can potentially box up to 25 gilas off one trigger.


I figure this should work pretty well. Thoughts?

If you live in your own WH, and don't worry about mass as much, I'd suggest rattlesnakes - more dps and easier tank/buffer.

[LordsServant]

Slightly improved, but more expensive triage paladin.

Solves the issue of capacitor - u get an energy xfer.

[Paladin, PVE triage shield RR]
Corpus X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Corpii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Corpii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Caldari Navy Co-Processor
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay


Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II


Large S95a Remote Shield Booster
Large S95a Remote Shield Booster
Large S95a Remote Shield Booster
Gistum A-Type Medium Remote Shield Booster
Bastion Module I
Gistum A-Type Medium Remote Shield Booster
Gistum A-Type Medium Remote Shield Booster
Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter


Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

EDIT: Haha post the fit.

[Mokoi]

The problem with the rattlesnakes, is they take 100% of the incoming damage, which is really hard hitting, and the Paladin shield only reps barely enough to cover the incoming DPS. If you get painted / webbed etc etc, you are going to have a bad time.

The armor though, can cover the reps with 3 armor reps, and have 4 spare. A Paladin can armor tank 2 ships non-stop AND local tank cap stable. That's pretty good. In fact, for totally braindead setups, you could run one paladin for every 2 DPS ships, and really win at EVE.. lol. not a TERRIBLE idea for someone running lets say 5 accounts, and wants a paladin, 2 DPS, an off-grid booster/salvager (Salvulture, anyone?) and then a scout to watch an active hole etc...

Not the worst idea, but slow that way. I will have 2 Paladin pilots, since I have 2 trained for the remote armor and BS V for the nestors anyway. I might run easy-mode days with 2 Paladins, 4 Ishtars / Droneus and an offgrid salvaging booster. Maybe a scout, if I want to be safe... but I love to whelp gilas, so who knows. Maybe ill broadcast in local instead.

[LordsServant]

Realized I was a bit overtanked on the paladin, pve wise.

If I do some tweaking....

[Paladin, PVE triage shield RR_FINAL]
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Corpii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Dread Guristas Co-Processor
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay


Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II


Large S95a Remote Shield Booster
Large S95a Remote Shield Booster
Gistum A-Type Medium Remote Shield Booster
Gistum A-Type Medium Remote Shield Booster
Bastion Module I
Gistum A-Type Medium Remote Shield Booster
Gistum A-Type Medium Remote Shield Booster
Large 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter


Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

Still cheap, but also packs the extra energy xfer and RR.

It does require either constant usage of drugs - exile - or the running of extra links.

For me personally, I'm sitting on a pile of high SP chars, so I can simply stack another Eos into my mix.

Paladin - Eos x2(one shield link, one armor link) - Gila x 10 is what I'm shooting for in an ideal fleet.

Paladin can lock up 10 targets at once without getting a passive targeter or some BS which reduces my tank numbers.

With the addition of the energy xfer, we can definitely run the invuln on the gila, increasing our tank numbers AND ehp.

[Gila, BOXER_ULTIMATE]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Internal Force Field Array I


Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Pithum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Pithum C-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Sentient Drone Navigation Computer


Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]


Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II


Hammerhead II x2
Valkyrie II x2



For 2nd Eos, maybe this?

[Eos, 2nd Eos]
Internal Force Field Array I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Dread Guristas Co-Processor
Dread Guristas Co-Processor


Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Pith C-Type EM Ward Field
Command Processor I


Armored Warfare Link - Damage Control II
Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defense II
Armored Warfare Link - Rapid Repair II
Information Warfare Link - Sensor Integrity II
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I


Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II


Gecko x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1

[Mokoi]

Also, at over half a billion each, I think you are better off using Droneus and Geckos. Much cheaper than the Gilas, and you get the bonus of using armor reps from the Paladin, and the T3 bonus of being awesome.

[LordsServant]

Mokoi my post above solves the repping problem.

Still not quite as good as being able to do 2 ships at once, but there's a lot to be said about frontloaded reps over the way armor reps have to cycle first.

You got comms or can u hop on eve and send em to me? We should discuss this. :)

[Mokoi]

But, whats with the remote cap xfer? who are you sending cap to?

[LordsServant]

But, whats with the remote cap xfer? who are you sending cap to?

If Gilas get neuted, invuln can turn off.

If command ships get neuted, links and their tank can turn off. Also painters couldnt cycle for assist.

[Mokoi]

Ah, good idea :) We used to use the Ishtars to feed cap to our guardians / Basis, and one to the command ships if on grid, too. Was useful at times. Didn't think a Paladin could remote cap xfer, but that's just get xfer, not send, right?

[LordsServant]

Ah, good idea :) We used to use the Ishtars to feed cap to our guardians / Basis, and one to the command ships if on grid, too. Was useful at times. Didn't think a Paladin could remote cap xfer, but that's just get xfer, not send, right?

Paladin just xfers out - it cannot receive anything back.

luckily, we have a huge amount of cap regen on the paladin thanks to our fit and sexy 5% bonus per amarr BS level for cap amount.

1 energy xfer should be enough to keep a neuted target running it's modules.

I like the triage paladin being the only focus for my repping, and the ability for it to run everything perma.

I can focus on reps with paladin and then triggering with the primary eos.

I'll prob build a mockup of your layout.

[EaTCarbS]

any of you wormhole folks ever used rattlesnakes? do they fare well in wh space?

[Mokoi]

I used 5 pimped local tanked with RR cap chain snakes... it was OK but too expensive to really do

[K'man]

This has been really interesting to read in the past week.

So, it seems that if you have less than 5 accounts you should run RR Domis as your cheapest alternative to making isk with the goal in mind to push the total accounts to 12 running 9 DPS 2 Logi and 1 Booster. That way say a Guardian can lock up 10 pilots including the other Guardian for quick responses.

For those of you who know how much isk you can make in a C5 wh would it be better to save up the 20+ billion isk to field your own multiboxed fleet of capitals rather then trying to fund 12 accounts? In the mean time running say 5 RR Domis practicing and fine tuning isboxer till your able to field say 2 moros, 1 archon, 1 archon/off grid booster/salvager and 1 loki pilot? I know there is other efficient ways of running c5 wh but the above ships are the standard.

Or would you be able to make more isk running c5 sites with a sub capital fleet over time? Where is the break even point in comparison of running sites between subcaptials and running sites with capitals?

[Alzuule]

running anoms with 12 accounts in stuff like vexor navy issues + 2 logi and booster costs about 1.5b or something for all ships combined and easily nets you 1b/hour which means after 2 hours you are at a profit. Its also alot faster to get into seeing as cap escalations are quite skill intensive.

If you are going to use the 12 accounts for more then pve then go for it, and if you want to get into clearing c5 sites asap then the 12 accounts will get started alot faster. If you can wait then cap escalation crew only takes 4/5 characters which means less accounts to plex which means more money/less farming needed.

[gomeler]

You can also consider saving up ISK from grinding C5 sites with subcaps to then buy cap pilots to grind C5 sites with caps. I'm using VNIs right now and the more time I look at EVEMon, the more I think I should just buy Moros/Carrier pilots and continue to train my VNI pilots into Ishtars. With the recent but to T2 hull insurance, Ishtars are looking mighty fine in my opinion. It's been a while since I looked at dedicated dread/carrier pilots, but 10-15b per pilot was ballpark if I recall correctly.

edit: I haven't spent TOO much time digging into C5 escalations, but I know I've read of guys running escalations with just 1 moros or nag with a good warp-in. So.. Buy 1 dread pilot, use it to buy a carrier pilot, buy another dread, buy another carrier, then buy MOAR DREADS.

[Mosg2]

For running C5 sites, I highly recommend you upgrade to Proteus instead of the Ishtars. The safety net of the 200k ehp buffer is worth the slight damage loss.

As for capital escalations... Someone will notice what you're doing and put a scan alt(s) into your system, and at some point you will be payed a visit while you're doing sites. It is inevitable. No amount of playing safe can prevent it--Even if you crit every hole into your system before you run sites, and then bubble them. I'm not saying that you won't make money in the meantime, I'm just saying that you have to accept that you will take losses doing escalations.

Soloing C5 sites with 20 characters nets me anywhere from 1-1.5b an hour depending on if someone from my corp made me warpins for the Strongholds and whether or not my three year old is running around :) Escalations are better isk/hour, but you're risking significantly more isk on the field to do so. Shrug.

[K'man]

For running C5 sites, I highly recommend you upgrade to Proteus instead of the Ishtars. The safety net of the 200k ehp buffer is worth the slight damage loss.

As for capital escalations... Someone will notice what you're doing and put a scan alt(s) into your system, and at some point you will be payed a visit while you're doing sites. It is inevitable. No amount of playing safe can prevent it--Even if you crit every hole into your system before you run sites, and then bubble them. I'm not saying that you won't make money in the meantime, I'm just saying that you have to accept that you will take losses doing escalations.

Soloing C5 sites with 20 characters nets me anywhere from 1-1.5b an hour depending on if someone from my corp made me warpins for the Strongholds and whether or not my three year old is running around :) Escalations are better isk/hour, but you're risking significantly more isk on the field to do so. Shrug.

I am sure someone will ask this but I'll be the first to ask. Is that 1-1.5b an hour per character or as a whole?

Has your droneus fit changed from the last time you posted in in this thread?

So currently I have 4 alts training for proteus. I have considered adding accounts next time new accounts are $99 for 12 months. This will give me 12 accounts. 9 proteus (Droneus), 2 guardians?, and 1 booster.

If you only had 12 accounts what would you suggest as a setup?

[Mokoi]

I am sure someone will ask this but I'll be the first to ask. Is that 1-1.5b an hour per character or as a whole?

Thats Overall. 1.5b an hour each character x20 would be the most broken insane thing ever in EVE lol.

[Alzuule]

How do you only make 1-1.5b an hour with that many characters though? i clear 4-4½ sites an hour usually with 8 combat characters 1 link and 1 salvager which is atleast 950m an hour. are the diminishing returns really that bad?

[Mosg2]

I run 16 Proteus (same fit as posted), 2 Guardians, 1 Loki, and 1 Damnation. I used to salvage, but I find that I make better isk/hour by bookmarking the sites and letting corpmates clean up after me. So, each site is worth almost exactly 200m.

My site clear times are 7-10 minutes per, which yields an expected return of 1.2-1.7 billion an hour if there is no shenanigans and I can warp from site to site. If I salvaged, it would add 300-430 million per hour, but I'm not comfortable salvaging while running sites. That means it would add time at the end, which is almost assuredly going to drop the isk/hour--It'd be more efficient to just run more sites.

Alzuule, are you running a RR spider setup? So effectively 8 DPS ships? What's your fit? My Droneus do about 650 apiece with my mediocre gunnery skills, which comes out to about 10.4k dps. With all of the webs and target painters I have, it's applied really well. I don't know how I could speed my setup up any more without swapping to... Eos? Yeah, Eos would be pretty easy to crank out 1k dps per ship. 2 Geckos, 2 Augmented Hammerheads, 1 Augmented Hobgoblin plus T2 Rails is over 1k dps, applied even better than the Droneus do.

Edit:
If I was running only 12 characters, I would probably just scale down what I'm doing now. The dream would be 9 Eos, 1 Loki, and 2 Guardians. Eos is a silly train into though.

What's great about my ship setup is that it translates into sudden pvp well. I don't have to swap mods out or move drones around at all.

[Alzuule]

im running 5 VNIs 1 ishtar and 2 basilisks, VNIs do about 580 dps each with curators and ishtar does 630 dps, got tengu links running at a safe. its the cheapest and least skill intensive setup i could figure out. So far ive almost lost a VNI twice due to not paying attention cause of salvaging but its a risk i feel is worth taking seeing as a VNI is super cheap and i usually only run the core garrisons which are easy and pay the most ( blue loot wise ). I thought you included salvage which is why i was suprised, makes better sense now :D

plan is to get the links on grid in an eos at some point too, this both adds to the dps and means you dont have to watch out that your links doesnt get ganked by something during site running. 1.2-1.7b is pretty amazing for blue loot only, with the proteus tank i'd feel alot better with salvaging. Im probably going to train up for drone proteus as well once im done training up my highsec alts, while the VNIs do fine it does get stressful when you have to be on the ball all the time to avoid going dangerously low.

[K'man]

im running 5 VNIs 1 ishtar and 2 basilisks, VNIs do about 580 dps each with curators and ishtar does 630 dps, got tengu links running at a safe. its the cheapest and least skill intensive setup i could figure out. So far ive almost lost a VNI twice due to not paying attention cause of salvaging but its a risk i feel is worth taking seeing as a VNI is super cheap and i usually only run the core garrisons which are easy and pay the most ( blue loot wise ). I thought you included salvage which is why i was suprised, makes better sense now :D

plan is to get the links on grid in an eos at some point too, this both adds to the dps and means you dont have to watch out that your links doesnt get ganked by something during site running. 1.2-1.7b is pretty amazing for blue loot only, with the proteus tank i'd feel alot better with salvaging. Im probably going to train up for drone proteus as well once im done training up my highsec alts, while the VNIs do fine it does get stressful when you have to be on the ball all the time to avoid going dangerously low.

Are you running shield fleets for this setup?

I am looking at possibly running all eos with guardians but not sure.

[gomeler]

Are you running shield fleets for this setup?

I am looking at possibly running all eos with guardians but not sure.


basi implies shield. I run shield VNIs also but I'm ~2 weeks out of C5 sites. Instant reps can be very forgiving, especially when I forget to setup the cap chain between my logi. Kind of tempted by armor with the cap passive tanking modules, as sometimes my DPS ships get neuted out, but I've got overkill on reps to combat that for the time being.

[Alzuule]

Biggest problem with running shield is the darn active hardeners shutting off all the time on the VNIs when they are neuted for more then half a minute, although with the tengu links they still tank the highest dps wave in core garrisons even when the adaptive invuln is offline.

[gomeler]

Biggest problem with running shield is the darn active hardeners shutting off all the time on the VNIs when they are neuted for more then half a minute, although with the tengu links they still tank the highest dps wave in core garrisons even when the adaptive invuln is offline.

Yup, can be a gigantic pain in the ass. I EFT'd a fit with passive resist modules but it was too big of a hit to shield EHP for me to consider for the slight inconvenience.

[Alzuule]

K'man, using Eos is a good idea since they are very strong dps wise and got good tank, however they take a really long time to train into so i would probably try out drone proteus or ishtars/VNIs first then skill into eos if you find that either of those dont work out for you.

[K'man]

Reading a lot of the replies and what I have gathered there are some recurring issues with opinions on almost all setups.

1. Nuets are the devil to any ship
2. Range of your weapons not hitting your target
3. Not enough EHP to feel comfortable
4. To much micromanaging

These are the top 4 concerns I have seen repeatedly in this thread.

I may have a solution to these concerns. Besides the Droneus I have an opposite approach to this.

OneModWonder

1235

Its counterpart!

1236

The Tengu has 676 DPS, 106,000 EHP, decent resists and you only have to activate one module. It's counterpart has its pair to run way more than enough cap to each other without worrying of being nueted out. One thing I forgot to mention about the Tengu is that if you get nueted completely and your sitting there with no cap at all. It doesn't matter as your tank and dps still is the same.

IN a multiboxing perspective especially for C5 wh activities 9 Tengu and 2 Basi. No links and with a booster in the fleet it does raise the EHP significantly even without links. Compared to the Droneus it is comparable in many areas.

Would this work? What do you all think?

[Alzuule]

very good tengu fit, some of the BS spawns hover at about 70-80km though so you would have to move closer to hit but i guess thats not a problem when you dont use sentries. only downside i can think off is the that you arent using drones ( need ammo and reloads ) and that you probably wouldnt have more then 65km range realistically unless you train all 5 missile skills right away so you would have to move 10km every now and then to get in range which would suck without a prop mod.

one way to get past the range issue would be to do 100km warp in -> warp to structure or just be moving towards future spawns from the start.

[K'man]

One major thing I forgot to mention was that I can change ammo to caldari navy scourge and it'll put me at a range of 94km but reduces my dps to 576 per tengu. Training for this exact fitting only takes 4-6 months. I'd just wait till they get within 70km and change ammo.

Most drone boats I've seen except for the Ishtar has a range of 50-60km with curators. Ishtars reach 70km with curators. Wouldn't you still need to move closer to the spawn points or wait 45 seconds for heavy drones to get there and have the chances of them getting popped and have to be replaced? I have not done any of these so I am just speculating.

[Alzuule]

i can start killing things at 80km with my VNI/ishtar setup, at 70km it does almot full dps.

gotta remember that optimal+falloff means 50% dps, so you will still hit some at 80km with unbonused sentries it just wont be that much. However the battleships that keep at those ranges have the weakest tank so its fine really.

my conclusion is that your tengu fit is awesome apart from the ammo dependency since it basicly does VNI dps out to past VNI range and max skill ishtar dps within 70km. Of course theres the delay before volley hits but oh well lose some win some.

[K'man]

I know there was some discussion on passive fit Ishtar and I came up with this fitting.

1237

Turn on DC II and then micromanage Sentries. EFT for some reason does not have the accurate range for the Sentries but it does hit at 80km but at a possible 50% and once below 72km it is hitting for almost the full damage output. You can use the Rails if you want but like others have mentioned its only an extra 100 dps.

9 of these and 2 Basi for support. Warp in deploy Sentries. Basi lock up all 10 pilots, Start Cap transfer, lock up targets and sit back and watch for armor damage. Rinse and Repeat.

I am not sure if a off grid booster with links is necessary as just a squad booster adds a little bit to everything. Thoughts?

What do you think on the fitting and idea?

[Alzuule]

looks good, definitely better then my VNIs but thats not really a suprise :P the extra mid and t2 resist profile really makes a difference tank wise. if running full ishtars then you probably dont have to use links, it might be needed to tank core strongholds though since they got a wave of 5 heavy volley battleships.

Squad boosts dont really matter since its only 5% hp to shield/armor and 5% bonus to inertia/scan res, while links add a ton by giving faster and more effective reps while lowering sig which reduces dps some. as long as you have more then 8 characters i would always prefer to bring links over another dps pilot.

[K'man]

looks good, definitely better then my VNIs but thats not really a suprise :P the extra mid and t2 resist profile really makes a difference tank wise. if running full ishtars then you probably dont have to use links, it might be needed to tank core strongholds though since they got a wave of 5 heavy volley battleships.

Squad boosts dont really matter since its only 5% hp to shield/armor and 5% bonus to inertia/scan res, while links add a ton by giving faster and more effective reps while lowering sig which reduces dps some. as long as you have more then 8 characters i would always prefer to bring links over another dps pilot.

What would be a good booster if I would to go with 8 ishtars, 2 basi and one booster with links? Any good fittings for that booster ship?

[K'man]

I have come to the conclusion that I want to try 1 of the 3 setups. What I do know is that I will have 11 accounts in order to fully utilize the Logi being able to lock up 10 pilots at a time. Reduces time to switch reps. I am still debating if I want to have a booster with links or not. I guess it would depend which route I will go.

First option is 9 ishtars fitted the way I posted a couple threads up with 2 basi or 8 ishtars, 2 basi and one booster with links. Not sure yet.

Second option is to try the ishtar setup in my first option but transition to the Droneus setup. I don't think a booster with links will be needed but I will have to train for Basi and Guardians which will take longer to do.

Third option which I am kind of leaning towards because not a lot of people have said they have done it is the 9 Tengu setup I posted earlier with 2 basi. With that setup I just don't think having a booster with links in place of the 9th dps ship would make a difference as they are already high buffer tanked with good dps. Only downfall is burning through ammo which the payoff of not having to worry about nuets or tanking the sites would be well worth the effort of bringing in ammo every once in awhile.

Has anyone ever multiboxed tengu in a c5 wh before?

[Alzuule]

for links you need shield/armor and skirmish, although you could do fine with just shield/armor but skirmish does add some tank. also without links your 2 basi might struggle with tanking core strongholds if you plan on doing those, strongholds have a wave of 2500 dps with high volley and the basis have a EFT dps tank of 1900 omni dps, thats of course not counting the low signature. With shield links that tank goes up to 2500 and the sig goes so low that the cruise missiles barely put a dent in you compared to the ishtars.

For running without links i would go with guardians, that 70m really makes it tank nicely.

[Jacobsalt]

for links you need shield/armor and skirmish, although you could do fine with just shield/armor but skirmish does add some tank. also without links your 2 basi might struggle with tanking core strongholds if you plan on doing those, strongholds have a wave of 2500 dps with high volley and the basis have a EFT dps tank of 1900 omni dps, thats of course not counting the low signature. With shield links that tank goes up to 2500 and the sig goes so low that the cruise missiles barely put a dent in you compared to the ishtars.

For running without links i would go with guardians, that 70m really makes it tank nicely.

As a matter of interest, with either the tengu or ishtar setups (9 2) or the eos/ gila setup, how much isk per hour are we talking as a whole and which sites can be done? I am debating whether or not this could outproduce my current incursion squad for less isk investment.

[Alzuule]

atm i do 800m in blue loot and average of 150m in salvage an hour with ( effectively ) 6 ishtars and 2 basis which without links can do core garrisons ( which are the ones im basing those numbers on as they are the best for blue loot and easy to run ), quarintines and oruze. im sure that doing 8/2 dps/logi and having a salvager would give you more isk an hour then 9/2 dps/logi, but that does split your attention a bit. Then again you can just salvage at the end or not at all.

you can probably run the stronholds too, i just dont do it cause i use mostly VNIs for dps, you could definitely do it with links.

[Jacobsalt]

atm i do 800m in blue loot and average of 150m in salvage an hour with ( effectively ) 6 ishtars and 2 basis which without links can do core garrisons ( which are the ones im basing those numbers on as they are the best for blue loot and easy to run ), quarintines and oruze. im sure that doing 8/2 dps/logi and having a salvager would give you more isk an hour then 9/2 dps/logi, but that does split your attention a bit. Then again you can just salvage at the end or not at all.

you can probably run the stronholds too, i just dont do it cause i use mostly VNIs for dps, you could definitely do it with links.

you said 6 ishtars, is that you just molding the dps from running 9 vnis?

[Alzuule]

nope thats running 1 ishtar and 5 VNIs, so i guess its more like 5½ ishtars due to the occasional range issue.

[K'man]

As a matter of interest, with either the tengu or ishtar setups (9 2) or the eos/ gila setup, how much isk per hour are we talking as a whole and which sites can be done? I am debating whether or not this could outproduce my current incursion squad for less isk investment.

Based on everything I have learned from this thread and personal experience your looking at an investment of about 3 billion take or give based on market prices for a 9 dps 2 logi setup being tengu or ishtars as they are both priced relatively the same. Now you could also run them with 5x domi and make just about the same but with a much less investment. Isk/hr is going to run you about 1 billion isk an hour which ever setup you go with.

Now, just like incursions you have an optimal setup for example navy apoc to NM's for best isk an hour. Now total investment for incursions is going to far exceed the setup in a c5 wh in regards to ships and fittings. Your also still going to make about 100 to 110 mill an hour per account still equating to that 1 billion isk an hour running incursions. I estimated the cost of the NM setup with 2 Logi to be right around 15 billion isk. Now the optimal setup in a C5 wh is to run your own capital fleet. You could run the entire thing with a minimum of 3 accounts with a more flexible setup of 5 accounts. Total investment with that as I ran capital escalations as a corp not solo was about 15 billion isk. But on the flip side when you get good at them and know what your doing you can run a c5 site every 7-10 minutes. Each site is 600-750 mill with blue loot and salvage. Thats roughly 5b an hour with a minimum of 5 accounts making 1b per account per hour.

That is my goal in the long run to have enough investment to run escalations in a c5 wh. Now you also have to remember that you can also have a set of alts doing PI (which is not a multiboxing thing) for extra 450m isk a month per pilot. Keep in mind you still have to fly these expensive items to market and sell them. You also have to pay in the upwards of 500m an a month in pos fuel. Lets put it this way, with just 4-5 people we were making on average of 80b isk a month on a casual play time.

[Jacobsalt]

Based on everything I have learned from this thread and personal experience your looking at an investment of about 3 billion take or give based on market prices for a 9 dps 2 logi setup being tengu or ishtars as they are both priced relatively the same. Now you could also run them with 5x domi and make just about the same but with a much less investment. Isk/hr is going to run you about 1 billion isk an hour which ever setup you go with.

Now, just like incursions you have an optimal setup for example navy apoc to NM's for best isk an hour. Now total investment for incursions is going to far exceed the setup in a c5 wh in regards to ships and fittings. Your also still going to make about 100 to 110 mill an hour per account still equating to that 1 billion isk an hour running incursions. I estimated the cost of the NM setup with 2 Logi to be right around 15 billion isk. Now the optimal setup in a C5 wh is to run your own capital fleet. You could run the entire thing with a minimum of 3 accounts with a more flexible setup of 5 accounts. Total investment with that as I ran capital escalations as a corp not solo was about 15 billion isk. But on the flip side when you get good at them and know what your doing you can run a c5 site every 7-10 minutes. Each site is 600-750 mill with blue loot and salvage. Thats roughly 5b an hour with a minimum of 5 accounts making 1b per account per hour.

That is my goal in the long run to have enough investment to run escalations in a c5 wh. Now you also have to remember that you can also have a set of alts doing PI (which is not a multiboxing thing) for extra 450m isk a month per pilot. Keep in mind you still have to fly these expensive items to market and sell them. You also have to pay in the upwards of 500m an a month in pos fuel. Lets put it this way, with just 4-5 people we were making on average of 80b isk a month on a casual play time.

you are fairly close on the isk investment although scarily enough you are actually shy of the mark for a full fleet for incursions. I make about 2.7-4.5b an hour in incursions, though thats because i have it down to a science. I would like to run capital escalations myself but havent finished training to be honest.


Whats the fit for the 5 domis, and why is it going to be the same as running 9 ishtars? it would seem that there is more dps from the larger setup. What about if i run the eos and gila setup?

[K'man]

you are fairly close on the isk investment although scarily enough you are actually shy of the mark for a full fleet for incursions. I make about 2.7-4.5b an hour in incursions, though thats because i have it down to a science. I would like to run capital escalations myself but havent finished training to be honest.


Whats the fit for the 5 domis, and why is it going to be the same as running 9 ishtars? it would seem that there is more dps from the larger setup. What about if i run the eos and gila setup?

How are you making that kind of isk an hour doing incursions? I thought even if you were running OTAs every 5 minutes that would be 120 mill an hour per account? I am very interested in how this is possible to make as much as you say you are in incursions.

The 5 RR domis used in that example are just shy of 1b an hour. They are limited to only certain c5 sites as they can't do them all. So once your done with those sites either you have to wait or roll your static to find another wh full of sites to run. Running the Ishar setup you are not limited to the sites you do as with the proper skills, fitting and know how you can run all the sites in your home and then run other sites in your static c5 wh.

[gomeler]

I wouldn't consider C5 sub-cap sites to be a decent replacement for running high sec incursions. A whole lot more risk, a whole lot more effort of scanning/scouting, and the cloaky proteus hiding behind every planet.

I haven't had the chance to run escalations yet, but I think they'd be what your looking for, if you were looking for more ISK/hr per character, albeit with a serious increase in risk.

[Alzuule]

5 rr domis wouldnt do it faster than ishtars, 1 ishtar = 1 domi

[Jacobsalt]

How are you making that kind of isk an hour doing incursions? I thought even if you were running OTAs every 5 minutes that would be 120 mill an hour per account? I am very interested in how this is possible to make as much as you say you are in incursions.

The 5 RR domis used in that example are just shy of 1b an hour. They are limited to only certain c5 sites as they can't do them all. So once your done with those sites either you have to wait or roll your static to find another wh full of sites to run. Running the Ishar setup you are not limited to the sites you do as with the proper skills, fitting and know how you can run all the sites in your home and then run other sites in your static c5 wh.

Do you have an rr domi fit for me? Also, thats because my site times are around 2 mins 30 secs in ota and nmc (ncos suck ass) so figure 3 mins or so with warp (yes i do use hyperspatials).

[K'man]

Do you have an rr domi fit for me? Also, thats because my site times are around 2 mins 30 secs in ota and nmc (ncos suck ass) so figure 3 mins or so with warp (yes i do use hyperspatials).

So I am assuming that is 12 NM and 1 Basi setup? That RR setup was in one of the videos that was posted in a few pages back within this thread. I think it was post #5. The fitting is in the video description.

[Jacobsalt]

More or less. There are a few other tricks i use, but those are things that i think only 2 other boxers that i know have figured out. So for now those are trade secrets.

[K'man]

More or less. There are a few other tricks i use, but those are things that i think only 2 other boxers that i know have figured out. So for now those are trade secrets.

LOL bouncing between posts on the same topic. Okay I respect that you have a trade secret. For a multiboxer that has not run incursions before what do you suggest as a target goal be in regards to ships, fitting, tactics to say get them down to at least 5 minutes in an OTA for example.

[Jacobsalt]

use the napocs if you are training a new crew, then you can skill up to the nms. if you dont have super skilled nm pilots you will need to run a fed web with boosts. and you will get 5-7 min sites until you get the dual sebo 3tc fit (insta everything).

[K'man]

use the napocs if you are training a new crew, then you can skill up to the nms. if you dont have super skilled nm pilots you will need to run a fed web with boosts. and you will get 5-7 min sites until you get the dual sebo 3tc fit (insta everything).

This is what I was targeting as a fitting for the NM.

[Nightmare, Nightmare]
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink


Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II


Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Large Remote Shield Booster II
Auto Targeting System II


Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II

I analyzed the video with the 12x NM and 1 Basi setup. I guessed on the low slots and rigs but when the mouse hovers over the button to change ammo I'm still off by a few dps even with 4% implants. I have no idea what the auto target mod is for. I thought it to be a good guess although it's not cap stable and if running sites every 3 minutes how's it possible to counter the capacitor issue.

[Jacobsalt]

This is what I was targeting as a fitting for the NM.

[Nightmare, Nightmare]
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink


Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II


Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Large Remote Shield Booster II
Auto Targeting System II


Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II

I analyzed the video with the 12x NM and 1 Basi setup. I guessed on the low slots and rigs but when the mouse hovers over the button to change ammo I'm still off by a few dps even with 4% implants. I have no idea what the auto target mod is for. I thought it to be a good guess although it's not cap stable and if running sites every 3 minutes how's it possible to counter the capacitor issue.

too many heat sinks, not enough scan res, not enough hp. deadspace the invuln and swap in a te and hyperspatial in the lows. lose the cdfe and em rigs and put in an elutriation rig if you have balls for skills, otherwise put in collision accel. You also forgot drones, and you really only need about 8-10 mins on cap. if you are hurting get the ca-1 ca-2 implants. and presto.

[K'man]

too many heat sinks, not enough scan res, not enough hp. deadspace the invuln and swap in a te and hyperspatial in the lows. lose the cdfe and em rigs and put in an elutriation rig if you have balls for skills, otherwise put in collision accel. You also forgot drones, and you really only need about 8-10 mins on cap. if you are hurting get the ca-1 ca-2 implants. and presto.

Thats awesome thank you. That will be my goal for training my alts. In the meantime I will get them in napocs and start saving up. I think the fitting on the euni website for the napoc will work till I get better at them.

[pinotnoir]

Making your character names the same with numbers at the end like Mosg will keep your fleet windows identical. That helps a ton.

[Crayonbox]

Thats awesome thank you. That will be my goal for training my alts. In the meantime I will get them in napocs and start saving up. I think the fitting on the euni website for the napoc will work till I get better at them.

using any more than 3 mods with the same attribute is usually a giant waste of the slot due to stacking penalty effects.

[K'man]

using any more than 3 mods with the same attribute is usually a giant waste of the slot due to stacking penalty effects.

I totally agree but I have no idea how the person in that video with 12 NMs and one Basi was able to over exceed the dps even with a stupid fitting I posted to try to replicate the same dps. I was still shy of several dps. I was able to pause the video when he hovered over the guns to change ammo and it showed the stats of the stacked guns. The only thing I can think of is rigs and 5% implants. But yes I agree anything over 3 is wasted. I should of explained I tried to copy the same dps but failed even with that setup.

[K'man]

This should be a relatively easy question(s) to answer. Boosters with links.

I would assume that a Tengu would be the most viable booster with links?

What is the recommended fitting for this booster with links?

This was something I pulled off of battleclinic for a tegnu booster with links for incursions. However, I don't think all of the links apply to say a 9/2 setup of Napocs/Basi and NMs/Basi.

[Tengu, Tengu]
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II


Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Command Processor I


Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing I
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Efficiency I
Siege Warfare Link - Active Shielding I
Information Warfare Link - Electronic Superiority I
Information Warfare Link - Recon Operation I
Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers I


Tengu Defensive - Warfare Processor
Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate
Tengu Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor
Tengu Offensive - Magnetic Infusion Basin
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix

I thought of changing a few of the links to reduce signature radius and because I am not running TPs I dont think I need the info warfare links although I would like to get an opinion on this matter.

[Jacobsalt]

This should be a relatively easy question(s) to answer. Boosters with links.

I would assume that a Tengu would be the most viable booster with links?

What is the recommended fitting for this booster with links?

This was something I pulled off of battleclinic for a tegnu booster with links for incursions. However, I don't think all of the links apply to say a 9/2 setup of Napocs/Basi and NMs/Basi.

[Tengu, Tengu]
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II


Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Command Processor I


Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing I
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Efficiency I
Siege Warfare Link - Active Shielding I
Information Warfare Link - Electronic Superiority I
Information Warfare Link - Recon Operation I
Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers I


Tengu Defensive - Warfare Processor
Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate
Tengu Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor
Tengu Offensive - Magnetic Infusion Basin
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix

I thought of changing a few of the links to reduce signature radius and because I am not running TPs I dont think I need the info warfare links although I would like to get an opinion on this matter.

Nope, you want unprobeable (without full hg scanning implants) claymore. Best boosts available, though a tengu will do in a pinch. trust me though, the hp difference is huge.

[K'man]

Nope, you want unprobeable (without full hg scanning implants) claymore. Best boosts available, though a tengu will do in a pinch. trust me though, the hp difference is huge.

You got a eft fit for that?

[K'man]

Alright I got 11 alts training as we speak. One thing I wanted to ask was what setting do you run at for graphics in game or what tips would help optimal playing? I did a test run on my machine with 12 accounts running, undocked and my CPU was running at 40%, Ram was running at 42%, and I had all graphics at high on each client averaging between 35fps and 40fps. Tested them for an hour and took the average. My bandwidth was the only thing I didn't test but I had 12 accounts running and YouTube playing in the background. Another thing to mention this was in window mode on each of the 12 clients.

[Crayonbox]

Nope, you want unprobeable (without full hg scanning implants) claymore. Best boosts available, though a tengu will do in a pinch. trust me though, the hp difference is huge.

COMPLETELY unprobable ships dont exist anymore. they changed the mechanics so that there is a hard cap now on the formula for sig radius / sensor strength. at max ratio, you need perfect skills and virtue set to get a 100% hit on you.

i use

[Loki, off-grid booster copy 1]
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II


Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Conjunctive Ladar ECCM Scanning Array I
Conjunctive Ladar ECCM Scanning Array I


Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers II
Skirmish Warfare Link - Rapid Deployment II
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing II
Information Warfare Link - Sensor Integrity II
[empty high slot]
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II


Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I


Loki Defensive - Warfare Processor
Loki Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Loki Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier
Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix


http://puu.sh/bOfrU/98341dd7c8.png


I use a t3 because i spend my time in null and the threat of bubbles exist. in high it really doesnt matter.

[K'man]

I have been playing with EFT for about a week now and I think I got the fittings down but want to ask for opinions.

My main will fly the support ship with links as I don't have to train an alt.
1267

2x Logi
1268

9x DPS/Sniper Range to Close Range
1269

Than I will transition to this beast once my skills get better.
1270

Any opinions would be appreciated. I currently have 11 alts training right now as I type this but it will be about 60 days till I can get a fleet together to make my first attempt.

[gomeler]

Guessing this is for Vanguard incursions, and not C5 sites?

[K'man]

Guessing this is for Vanguard incursions, and not C5 sites?

Lol I thought I responded to the incursion thread I started. Oops. Yes, this is for vanguards.

[Jacobsalt]

Lol I thought I responded to the incursion thread I started. Oops. Yes, this is for vanguards.

Looks fairly close to the path i took. Gl sir :D

[lcampbell89]

Anyone done much testing when it comes to the best fleet to use for C5 static farming? I am going to assume a 12 man fleet as it seems to be most common.

Gila x9 , Basi x 2, Booster x1

Ishtar x9 , Basi x 2, Booster x1

Drone Proteus x9, Guardian x2, Booster x1

Mainly EFT warrioring this stuff right now. The following is my skills.

But Gila seems to be reasonably priced, pure passive with about 90k EHP prior to boosts with 600 DPS. Only active thing is a DC II so virtually impossible to neut out. Using x2 Hammerhead

Ishtar probably not far off from the Gila price wise, maybe a little cheaper. 74k EHP before boosts but 850 DPS. Does use a DC II and two Invuls so this might get capped out which makes me lean back towards the Gilas. Using x2 Gecko x2 Hammerhead x1 Hob

Drone Proteus probably the most expensive of the three but might be worth it. 125k EHP before boosts. 700 DPS with drones and guns, previous two were just drones. Using x2 geckos and 250 rails. But with new changes actually using the rails is probably a little less likely.

Gila probably takes the least training to be fairly proficient but at this point most of my toons should be capable of flying all three setups within a few weeks either way. Curious if there is an advantage to using Mediums, Heavies, or Sentries over one or the other. I know the positives of only sending out 2x drones is having more accounts to multibox with. But for just 12 toons at the moment curious which will be more effective.

Happy to hear other suggestions as well. With the upcoming changes drones definitely seem to be the best way to go.

By the way fits I am getting the info from are pretty much ones I have found on here with very small tweaks like small deadspace or faction upgrades to improve EHP or fitting space.

EDIT: I also saw someone talking about a fleet of Eos, kind of curious how that would workout... Also what a fit like that might look like?

[Alex66]

I am going to assume a 12 man fleet as it seems to be most common.

Not sure if this will be the case from Jan-1, 2015 given the changes to EULA with ban on keyboard/mouse input broadcasting...

[lcampbell89]

Not sure if this will be the case from Jan-1, 2015 given the changes to EULA with ban on keyboard/mouse input broadcasting...

You know I can't honestly say whether or not that is true. If you have suggestions for what the standard fleet will be I am happy to hear it!

But for the time being it seems to be the most efficient way of doing things. Assigning drones to one toon and then you only have to manage that and your logi. Might be tedious to release and assign 9 different sets of drones but still very effective. Theoretically at least lol

[K'man]

But for the time being it seems to be the most efficient way of doing things. Assigning drones to one toon and then you only have to manage that and your logi. Might be tedious to release and assign 9 different sets of drones but still very effective. Theoretically at least lol

The main goal here would be to train your pilots to run a full capital fleet to make the most isk an hour doing escalations. This also does not require the use of software which than you don't have to be concerned about the upcoming changes. However, in the mean time Gila setup would be best in my opinion because you can fleet warp the gang use one ship as the anchor and assign your drones. All you have to do than is make sure things stay alive and the drones attacking the sleepers. Making sure you watch your watchlist and dscan will be the most tedious thing but if we are still allowed to use Video FX than you can place all that information on one screen or do what I did and get a bigger monitor (27") is perfect size to monitor 4 clients at a time with minimal overlapping.

[lcampbell89]

Ya they are on the way to run capitals, in fact I could honestly have that set up in a week or so. The problem there is being in the right hole for it. Would essentially have to live solo in a C5 for a while. Interested in the static ops as it is a little more flexible and doesn't depend on sites as much. While still allowing for some teamwork with other pilots.

Curious why you choose Gila though, can do the same with all of the others? Running heavies on ishtars and geckos on the Drone Proteus is literally the same process?

I actually run a 27 with 2 24s on each side so I have the monitor space at the moment!

[K'man]

Ya they are on the way to run capitals, in fact I could honestly have that set up in a week or so. The problem there is being in the right hole for it. Would essentially have to live solo in a C5 for a while. Interested in the static ops as it is a little more flexible and doesn't depend on sites as much. While still allowing for some teamwork with other pilots.

Curious why you choose Gila though, can do the same with all of the others? Running heavies on ishtars and geckos on the Drone Proteus is literally the same process?

I actually run a 27 with 2 24s on each side so I have the monitor space at the moment!

You don't have to be in the right wh to run capital escalations. Check out the thread The Plan and I posted setups for running subcaps, capitals and than solo capital escalations with a youtube video showing you can be in the worst wh for running capital esclations with wrong capital bonuses with ease. I only ran them on my own when there was nobody else around. When others were online I had them run the other ships to make the entire process faster. I live in a strange TZ so there is little to no activity so I do a lot of things on my own.

I choose to to use the Gila over the Ishtar, Tengu, Legion, Proteus, and EOS, because I factor in the cost/time to risk to benefit. The Gila can fit 3x LSE with still an output the same as the T3 but less than half the cost for the same outcome. I have 9x Gila with 2x Basi and 1x OGB but having to warp separate fleets around and not everyone warping when needed is a little difficult using fleet warp so I might drop to 10 total. 7 Gila, 2 Basi and 1 Booster that could come into the site with me providing boosts while applying drone DPS. This way I can fleet warp everyone to the sites without leaving anyone behind and if I would to reassign that ability to someone else my booster isn't left behind. Warp to site, drop MTU, use the booster as the anchor and command the fleet to follow using the fleet window so everyone is orbiting, lock up all targets, drop drones and assign them to booster pilot as the trigger and keep up on reps. Practically all of that could be manually done on a large screen but it takes practice.

[LordsServant]

Anyone done much testing when it comes to the best fleet to use for C5 static farming? I am going to assume a 12 man fleet as it seems to be most common.

Gila x9 , Basi x 2, Booster x1

This is basically what I run.

8x Gilas, 2x Basi, 1x Vulture.

I use the vulture to give bonuses, salvage, and trigger on grid.

I use broadcasting in my current setup to recall all drones, and to assign all drones thru a repeater region.

Everything else is done manually.

Once the change hits, all I have to do is manually assist the drones, and manually recall the drones. This should be pretty easy and simply slow me down by 30 seconds or so per site (which with a runtime of ~15 minutes isn't that big a deal).

For pvp, I think we're gonna be better off with using artillery based doctrine's like I'd already planned.

Everyone locks stuff up, confirms they're locked, and then u volley. If you have enough numbers you can just call 2-3 targets at a time, and have people spam lock and arty on all of those without issue.

I would avoid ishtars or droneus because they do not offer comparable performance.

The ishtar can theoretically apply a bit more drone dps, but it's tank is extremely subpar - using active modules will not work as sleepers do neut heavily if you're unlucky in primary.

The droneus is better, and would be comparable as far as armor, however it lacks the ability to apply damage as well as the gila or ishtar - the gila uses medium drones, the proteus uses geckos. Said geckos do not have the tracking bonuses of the ishtar and thus fall woefully behind gila mediums.

The railguns are more annoying post patch, and if you insist on doing that, you can still put RLMLs on the Gilas for blapping frigs and cruisers for equivalent or better dps - all applied far better than the proteus.